God loves you. So what?

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December 26th, 2015 at 11:43:08 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
You continue to bring up this Catholic group and their movie reviews as somehow the voice of allmighty God and speaking for the Church universal. Your example of getting hit by a truck and automatically going to hell is also bad theology..


There is good theology? I grew up around
Catholics who were forbidden from seeing
certain movies by the Church, what can I
say. You don't think that's possible, too bad
you weren't there 50 years ago to set them
straight. I can find 100 sources that say
there were condemned movies that Catholics
couldn't see because it was a sin, you say that
never happened.

Who do you think I'll believe, my own experience
and a hundred sources, or you.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
December 26th, 2015 at 11:54:58 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Nareed
According to her drinking caffeine and alcohol was not forbidden. So then one can drink alcohol and coffee? No, one should not. But it's not a sin, is it? Yes, it is. Then it's forbidden? No, you can do as you will.


It's religious double-speak. My wife's family
does it. None of them drink and when you
ask if it's against their religion, they say no.
So why don't you do it. Well, it's a sin.
But in the Bible, even Jesus drank. They all
drank. We're they sinning?

They won't answer, because they don't have
an answer. All they know is, if they get caught
drinking their church will shun them, and that's
the same as death. I knew a guy who got shunned
for a divorce and it was so bad he left the state
and started a new life.

Religion is appalling.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
December 26th, 2015 at 12:12:53 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Dalex64
Here is the Vatican endorsement I thought probably existed.
http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_08091957_miranda-prorsus.html
It references an earlier papal encyclical

It basically instructs the national catholic organizations to set up film and television review boards, if they hadn't already done so, and to issue ratings. The Legion of Decency was the American version of this review board.


I liked your earlier link and this one in particular linking to Pius XII's very interesting letter about radio, tv, and movies in 1957 is very interesting and worth a read. He extols the development of these new forms of communication and entertainment as good things but that come with dangers that need to be considered and protected against. Interesting that there is no mention of mortal sin or that you would go to hell for watching a certain type of movie. There is also no banned list and as your earlier link pointed out, the Pope wants to focus not on boycotts and condemning movies but rather watching and supporting good ones. So you are welcome to try to move the goalposts wherever you would like and change Bob's words to "in essence banned" or "at some point" condemned certain movies and people who went to see them. However, the Church universal simply asked to set up groups that would help guide Catholics towards what movies were good and which were not. By the 60s this legion group hardly had any influence anymore and by the 80s they seem to have stopped their work. The Catholic Church in America of course wasn't the only ones trying to guide and warn people about the content and moral quality of movies. So can we put this issue to bed? There was no official banned list of movies by the Catholic Church and at least according the Pope there was no pain of mortal sin for going to the movies, they alone won't send you to hell.

Now Bob, I ask again is there something about the Church that you have gotten correct?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
December 26th, 2015 at 12:22:06 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob


Religion is appalling.


You have to learn moderation and not to turn particulars into universals. For example in the Catholic Church you can drink if you would like and divorce or separation is not a sin that would lead you to not being welcome in Church. It isn't religion it is sin that is appalling.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
December 26th, 2015 at 12:23:47 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob


Who do you think I'll believe, my own experience
and a hundred sources, or you.


Believe your experiences but be careful not to make your personal experiences into universal truths.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
December 26th, 2015 at 12:26:48 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
However, the Church universal simply asked to set up groups that would help guide Catholics towards what movies were good and which were not.


LOL! This is like your explanation on how
the Inquisitions were really no big deal,
the Vatican archives prove they were really
a good thing that got a lot of bad publicity.

Quote:
Now Bob, I ask again is there something about the Church that you have gotten correct?


You mean something I can link to and
you'll put the Church spin on it and say
it's a lie? Geez, too many to list. It's what
you always do with everything, you're
doing it now with condemned movies.
Your mission is to rewrite Church history,
but it can't be done because you can't
erase what's out there. You can no longer
burn books and imprison people who go
against Church doctrine. (which never even
happened, right?)
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
December 26th, 2015 at 12:29:46 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Nareed
I would love to hear an answer to the original question:

God loves you.

So what?

How does that have any effect on my life, even if it were true (which it's not).


It is very true and it has the same effect as realizing that your rights as a human being do not come from some benevolent government that can withdrawl said rights at any time. You are loved by God unconditionally and forever. So what? So when you look around and your friends are not around or they have betrayed you, when your family doesn't understand you or aren't there for you, when you even feel bad about yourself you could still have hope that there is a love that remains. No one, no thing, can ever separate you from the love of God.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
December 26th, 2015 at 12:41:48 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
I was just trying to point out the facts.

there was a banned movie list

the legion of decency operated under the authority of the catholic church

they were hugely influential - since the catholics followed what they said, hollywood had to change what they were doing

senior leaders of the US church threatened damnation, for lack of a better word, for watching these banned movies

things the senior leaders say carry the weight of the whole church, to those that listen

the encyclical talks about 'damage to the soul' for watching these things

I didn't read the earlier encyclical yet. at the time of this 1957 one, the direction was to promote "good" films more than condemning "bad" ones, but that didn't stop the legion of decency for quite some time.

I don't know if Bob's argument was that the church DOES these things, or the church DID these things, but the facts clearly point out that the church DID these things in the past.

the last movies condemned by the legion of decency were in 1980.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_condemned_by_the_Legion_of_Decency

and again, the logical steps:
pope called for the churches to establish committees to review movies
legion of decency was one such committee in the united states, and 'condemned' certain movies
the legion of decency was operating with the support and under the authority of the catholic church
the legion of decency 'condemned' movies on behalf of the catholic church
therefore the catholic church 'condemned' movies


here is a link to a description of the current movie review system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Conference_of_Catholic_Bishops%27_Office_for_Film_and_Broadcasting
the worst rating is now O for Objectionable.

here is the rating system itself

http://www.catholicnews.com/about-cns-movie-reviews.cfm

here is their review of Star Wars: The Force Awakens.. They give it an A-II - ok for Adults and Adolescents

http://www.catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2015/star-wars-the-force-awakens.cfm
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
December 26th, 2015 at 12:53:50 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
by the way, I used to use this site http://kids-in-mind.com/ for help in deciding if a movie was ok for my kids to watch, when they were younger.

at a glance it has 3 gauges for a movie -
sex and nudity
violence and gore
profanity
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
December 26th, 2015 at 12:55:26 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Dalex64


I don't know if Bob's argument was that the church DOES these things, or the church DID these things, but the facts clearly point out that the church DID these things in the past.


That they did them in the past. FrG went
as far as my friend was lying when he said
the Church wouldn't let him see certain
movies. Everybody in the past were liars
as far as the current Church is concerned.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
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