God loves you. So what?

The even better news is God is real and does help, comfort, and support!

Quote: FrGamble

I've said it before I have serious questions about the formation of your ex-priest friend Ed. I don't doubt he is telling the truth that someone told him not to see these movies and it was a sin.

He said he was aware of the list and that
it was a sin to see movies on the list. He
said in those days priests went to movies
on their days off all the time, there was
nothing else to do.

You ever notice how often you accuse people
of lying? It's really quite startling. I rarely do
that. I find that people who think others are
always lying to them, are frequent liars themselves.

Quote:

The even better news is God is real and does help, comfort, and support!

The scores of prayer group studies done
since the 1880's say otherwise. Prayer
is a just a form of self worship. Obviously.

Quote: Evenbob

You ever notice how often you accuse people
of lying? It's really quite startling. I rarely do
that. I find that people who think others are
always lying to them, are frequent liars themselves.

I haven't noticed that but it is an ugly trait that I will watch out for and try not to do. I do think that most of the time after I calm down you turn out to be just confused or unaware of the truth. I don't think you are a liar, but I guess I just have a hard time realizing how you can so often get things wrong about the Church consistently. I know this isn't a very good apology, but I'm sorry if I called you a liar about this movie issue and the issue of a bus in Rome. Your experience is your experience and though it doesn't match mine in the least and seems to fall into the stereotypes of what people think about the Church and Italian people I shouldn't question your honesty. If there has been any other times I have called you a liar I have forgotten them. I will start the new year with a commitment to not ever doubt your honesty but to continue to point out your errors.

Quote: FrGamble

I know we have different views in regards to love but I know a few couples for at times one was unable to lift and finger and one whose spouse was paralyzed.

It is inane comments like these why we need to bring back rhetoric as a subject in school.

Quote: FrGamble

but I guess I just have a hard time realizing how you can so often get things wrong about the Church consistently.

What you need to be concerned about is all
the bad information you're getting from
your own church. It's well known they are
trying to rewrite their awful history, and
you're buying it hook, line and sinker.

Quote: Dalex64

someone needs to be real to lift a finger

Good point.

Quote: Evenbob

The scores of prayer group studies done
since the 1880's say otherwise. Prayer
is a just a form of self worship. Obviously.

Haven't we already debunked these so called prayer studies as poor science and in many ways out of the reach of science. Are you saying my experiences mean nothing? What about the experiences of countless others?

Quote: FrGamble

Haven't we already debunked these so called prayer studies as poor science

They haven't been debunked by science, just
the Church. When you have painstaking
studies done for months, many studies over
years and decades, by unbiased people with
no dog in the race, and the results are always
100% the same, there is nothing to debunk.
Even the few that were done by Christian
groups got the same results.

Your experiences? How about the experiences
of people in real whacky religions, who have
visions and put curses on people and the
curses really work, like in Voodoo. People
tend to have the experiences they're looking
for, because they're actively looking for them.
Never underestimate our power to delude
ourselves. The worst part of being a priest
for my friend Ed was, that he was deluded and
deluded himself for so many years. He still
kicks himself for wasting so much time on
nothing.

I really should have read this one first

http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_08091957_miranda-prorsus.html

it opens with this

Quote:

In following with vigilant eye, as Our Pastoral Office requires, the beneficent work of Our Brethren in the Episcopate and of the faithful, it has been highly pleasing to Us to learn of the fruits already gathered and of the progress which continues to be made by that prudent initiative launched more than two years ago as a holy crusade against the abuses of the motion pictures and entrusted in a special manner to the "Legion of Decency".

it authorizes bishops to "ban" movies

Quote:

It is equally the duty of the Bishops of the entire Catholic world to unite in vigilance over this universal and potent form of entertainment and instruction, to the end that they may be able to place a ban on bad motion pictures because they are an offence to the moral and religious sentiments and because they are in opposition to the Christian spirit and to its ethical principles.

No references to it being sinful to watch a banned movie, though.

it references an earlier encyclical which I am reading now: http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121929_divini-illius-magistri.html

one thing in there, not related to movies, but related to the equal rights for women issue: it the church's opposition to co-education:

Quote:

False also and harmful to Christian education is the so-called method of "coeducation." This too, by many of its supporters, is founded upon naturalism and the denial of original sin; but by all, upon a deplorable confusion of ideas that mistakes a leveling promiscuity and equality, for the legitimate association of the sexes. The Creator has ordained and disposed perfect union of the sexes only in matrimony, and, with varying degrees of contact, in the family and in society. Besides there is not in nature itself, which fashions the two quite different in organism, in temperament, in abilities, anything to suggest that there can be or ought to be promiscuity, and much less equality, in the training of the two sexes.

(emphasis added by me)

These encyclicals, I think, are the ultimate in fact-checking. They ARE the policy of the church, at that point in time.