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Home » Controversial Topics » Current Issues » Should the state be allowed to force a cancer treatment?
Should the state be allowed to force a cancer treatment?
Poll
 | 5 votes (62.5%) | ||
| | 1 vote (12.5%) | ||
| | 2 votes (25%) |
8 members have voted
| January 11th, 2015 at 8:48:56 AM permalink | |
| Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | There comes a time to "just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains and go to your God like a soldier" rather than be a helpless pincushion for useless treatment in a hellish existence having no relevance to the concept of "life". |
| January 11th, 2015 at 11:26:12 AM permalink | |
| petroglyph Member since: Aug 3, 2014 Threads: 25 Posts: 6227 |
+1000 Last year a friend availed himself of Oregon's assisted suicide program. Although it is a certainty that the meds work, they aren't as quick as one would like. AZ mentioned above not wanting to make a mess. I find that to be a common thread among those that consider termination on a daily basis. I have said before it looks different when a person has a longer distance from the event horizon, than when it is up close and personal. I hear people say, "oh they were just depressed". I find that ignorant. Some are depressed, sure. Some are just tired of pain and can't see it ever getting better. Without some belief it will get better, one ways the pro's and con's IMO. I detest that some states feel they own the person to the length that the state believes themselves the authority in such situations. Family's that have lived through a failed attempt, are changed. All self termination isn't some mental disease of depression, but a logical choice? Every person needs a reason to get out of bed, that outweighs the pain of laying there. The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW |
| January 11th, 2015 at 11:35:43 AM permalink | |
| kenarman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 14 Posts: 4515 |
I am glad to hear the church has accepted some care as extraordinary but would disagree with the food exculsion. Not sure what the difference is between force feeding oxygen via a ventilator or force feeding nutrition via an IV. Having been through end of life scenerios with both of my parents and my mother-in-law these are not theoretical concepts to me. On a side note Padre and something you are probably quite familiar with all three of these experiences were very peacefull. What might seem strange to you is that it didn't require a strong reliqious belief or even a belief in God for this peace. Just the natural love of a child for a parent and the acceptance that death is a natural and unavoidable end to the human condition. "but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin |
| January 11th, 2015 at 6:31:44 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | I tend to agree with you in regards to the feeding nutrition via an IV or at least would value heavily the doctor's opinion in regards to the benefit and prognosis of such a choice. The method of feeding could certainly make it an extraordinary act. Actually, I don't find your scenario of peace at the moment of death even without a belief in God to be strange. Especially as you beautifully described the presence of love in a family surrounding a person during those last moments here on earth. I would say that this love is not just natural, but supernatural. After all God is described in the Scriptures as love itself. Love has a transcending characteristic that overcomes the sadness of death. Love continues for your dear parents and mother-in-law, it gives us a sense that we are truly still connected and they are with us. All faith does is believe that feeling is absolutely real and will be fulfilled in Heaven. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| January 11th, 2015 at 6:45:45 PM permalink | |
| terapined Member since: Aug 6, 2014 Threads: 73 Posts: 11791 |
Interesting. My father committed suicide in the late 1970's during the prime of his life simply due to depression. We hired a priest to speak at the funereal. Nice guy. My father was raised catholic but became an atheist. All the Catholic relatives are in town and talking to them a lot about my father. The subject of sin never came up. I talked a lot to the priest because he never met Dad and wanted to get a sense of him before he spoke at the funeral. Again sin never came up. Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World" |
| January 12th, 2015 at 8:45:46 AM permalink | |
| reno Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 58 Posts: 1384 |
I agree, the age makes this case a tough one. Surely an 12 year old kid can't make these decisions on their own. But a really mature 17 year old? Different story. By definition, all age restrictions are always arbitrary: drivers license, drinking age, gambling age, age of consent for sex, voting rights, etc. The law seems to believe that a kid who is 17 years and 364 days old is an imbecile but once they turn 18 years and 1 day old they are suddenly wise sages. This is an easy criticism for me to make, but I admit I don't have a better solution. I certainly don't want most 12 year olds driving cars or voting. In particular the alcohol age limit of 21 is an especially bad policy. It basically turns almost every college freshman into a criminal which makes a mockery of the law. (Do we really want almost every 19 year old to have an antagonistic attitude towards police?) And yet those same kids who are supposedly too stupid to be trusted with a beer are "mature" enough to sign life-changing contracts like joining the Army and getting married (ha!). |
| January 12th, 2015 at 11:00:21 AM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18210 |
The drinking age is a tough one. The maturity level really is different at 21 vs 18, and do we really want high school kids mixing at the local bar? I was always in favor of 19 or 20. Keeps the HS set away but makes it easier in college not to have to wait and be always breaking the law. I was lucky there, I waited two years before moving to college. If you were 21 at a kegger and the cops came the just shoo-flied you away unless you made yourself get arrested or it was your place. But I could not imagine being a near senior and illegal. My issue is that the judge in the case with the girl is not allowed to examine her directly and make a decision. How hard is it to take her to chambers, no attorneys maybe only another judge and just conversate with her, get a feel if she knows what she is doing. This is missing from society. On that subject I read about a guy lost his kid for three days and has a record with CYS. He was at a ballgame and didn't know "Hard Lemonade" was booze. Bought some for his kid, around age 10 IIRC. Kid goes to take a sip and security sees it. Now, in the old days security would just say, "HEY, THAT KID IS NOT OF AGE!" But security took them to the office where they *had* to call the cops and the cops *had* to take him to the hospital, who found no booze in the kid's system but they *had* to call CYS who then *had* to take the kid for three days. Now, all that because of a simple mistake. At each step all parties thought the guy just screwed up, but all hands were tied. That is the age we live in, and it is part of what is bringing the USA down as a society. The President is a fink. |
| January 12th, 2015 at 12:40:20 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 | It's tempting to force a life-saving treatment on a young person who may (and I stress the may) not be thinking about the long term consequences of their decision. However, do we consider the long-term consequences of the state forcing treatment on anyone? Keep in mind that the parties in power change and the ideologies of the people in power changes as well, not to mention the culture changes. What you may find acceptable or desirable today may not be so tomorrow. Remember, too, medicine includes psychiatry. In a country where the rule of law is, mostly, respected, it's important not to establish intrusive, damaging precedents that erode individual liberty. allowing the state to force medical treatment on an unwilling person is one such damaging precedent. I can easily imagine things like transgender and gay people being forced to undergo conversion therapy (torture also being considered legal these days), or other abuses in psychiatry, like they did in the USSR. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| January 12th, 2015 at 10:17:34 PM permalink | |
| petroglyph Member since: Aug 3, 2014 Threads: 25 Posts: 6227 | There is a lot you don't know going in, either that are in such shock the input doesn't register. Some of the experience is medieval. It seems to me that the whole medical experience has changed a lot and Dr's dole out time slots in 15 minute increments. At times I feel like I am being harvested. http://news.yahoo.com/cancer-survivors-plagued-lack-personal-control-002440015.html I am fairly certain there is a cancer support group nearby. There is no equal to being able to share the experience with someone who has went before you. There are friends or family that care or are concerned and lots of well wishers. But like several other things in a persons life there is no comparison with having done it ourselves. My .02 The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW |
| January 13th, 2015 at 2:28:35 AM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18210 |
You want the doc to spend a full hour with you then be prepared to spend $600 or so for the appointment. That is how much per hour a doctor needs to generate based on a 40 hour week. It is about productivity and medical care is no different than having your car worked on, a certain amount per hour is needed. The President is a fink. |