The unintended consequneces of gay marrige ballot wins?

The UK just passed their equal marriage bill :

"The Commons voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill, by 400 to 175, a majority of 225, at the end of a full day's debate on the bill.
Prime Minister David Cameron has described the move as "an important step forward" that strengthens society."

Note that this was pushed forward by a right-leaning PM.

I am sure British society will now collapse (sarcasm, sarcasm)

Quote: TheCesspit

I am sure British society will now collapse (sarcasm, sarcasm)

The Brits have been in decline for many years. They are smart enough not to just blindly flow the eu of the cliff but they are close. This is merely one more sign.

Quote: TheCesspit

I am sure British society will now collapse (sarcasm, sarcasm)

Oh, worse. This is the kind of thing that culd bring down the British Empire! For heaven's sake, next thing you know, the Queen will have to give up India and Hong Kong!

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

My understanding of how it's done in Saudi Arabia is that a man can have a maximum of 4 wives and each is set up in her own house. That's quite a responsibility for the husband to provide for, and he must be able to do so or he isn't allowed another wife.

You can have an estate that has four towers. I saw some of them in Bahrain. As I understand it, the wives must be treated basically equal. You can't have one to take care of children, an educated one to take to parties, one to cook, and one kinky one. The "head wife" is allowed to be distinguished in modest ways (i.e. different color tower). The younger Saudi men are unlikely to enter into polygamy as it is extremely expensive and not much fun.

The King can have more than four wives.

I agree that the government should get out of the "sanctity of marriage" business, and into the business of civil unions. Other definitions of marriage should revert to private institutions (presumably religious). The "first cousin" marriage practiced by some ethnic groups is difficult. The government has a responsibility to intrude here just as they can object to people who are smoking and drinking during pregnancy. Mandatory genetic testing should be required with conditions by which such marriages are not legal, and having children should be legally punished.

The "ruling family" of Europe (the legitimate descendants of George I who died in 1727) now number 5,753 as of 1 Jan 2011. Most of them are well off with many of them as ruling monarchs or consorts of the remaining kingdoms. But they have the wealth and power of all the states of Europe to sustain them. The highest ranking member of the family is Queen Elizabeth II.

The "House of Saud" formed in 1744—Muhammad ibn Saud has many estimates but Forbes quoted it as roughly 30,000 people, but because of polygamy is expected to swell to 60,000 in 7 or 8 years. But this family is supported by a single state of 27 million people which is going bankrupt keeping it's royals in splendor.

Quote: AZDuffman

As marrige is changed from "one man and one woman" it loses a status. So, as some of us said, it is only a matter of time before we may legally have to allow polygamy.

So what? All these statements about debasing the concept of marriage might be withheld until the speaker has studied just what we have accepted as a marriage. And I fail to see why there should be some automatic repulsion about polygamy.

Marriages: Often the production of children was such a burden that it was highly unlikely for anyone in their old age to be cared for by a child borne by a first wife. Loss of one wife in childbirth often meant a very prompt taking of a substitute wife. Even at the higher ends of society an Edwardian marriage had to merely have the appearance of success, actual paternity was not considered. The taking of an older daughter as a replacement for her mother was not without some condemnation but it was often accepted.

Polygamy: In various forms polygamy is already here. Regular and routine use of partners outside the marriage is common and is often credited with helping to keep marriages intact. Au Paire is a vaguely defined term but often means successor or co-wife more than anything else. Wives are no longer seeking divorce but are more often opting for meeting the other woman and having a glass of wine.

Quote: AZDuffman

Those of us against gay marrige are called bigiot-homophobes and accused of not wanting "equality." We are asked, *I* have been asked here, "how will the world end if we allow gay marrige?" My retort has been it will not happen on day one, but wait for the law of unintened consequences.

Well, here is a good essay on some of what may happen.

As marrige is changed from "one man and one woman" it loses a status. So, as some of us said, it is only a matter of time before we may legally have to allow polygamy. Think about it, if we accept an overseas gay-marrige then isn't it discriminatory to not accept a muslim who wants to bring his four wives to live in the USA. And if we accept that then do we not have to allow such marriges here as if we say the overseas marrige is not valid then equality demands we have the same here.

You can call me a "right wing nut" if you want to, but those who know law know I have a point here. The legal argument that marrige is not "one man, one woman" means that the door is open for all kinds of unions. The argument that you will recognize *any* non OMOW marriges means you must recognize *all* such unions.

The link to the article is gone. (I am guessing it was deleted).

But, what is wrong with consenting adults in a polygamous marriage? Marriage is essentially a legal contract, if 1 man and 10 women, or 4 men want to enter into marriage what is the issue?

The religious argument against polygamy based on religion, it is featured in both the Bible and Koran... It is also featured in Mormonsim.... So making a religious argument against gay marriage while decrying polygamny does not hold logic....

I Personally have no desire to get married, but I fail to see how polygamy or gay marriage deteriates from any other marriage.... Also, as far as I am concerned any conesnting adults can enter whatever contract that they choose to (I am against marriages before 18 because kids are taking an obligation that will effect them -statistically negatively- for the rest of their lives before they can even be trusted to get a credit card....)

Quote: Gandler

Quote: AZDuffman

Those of us against gay marrige are called bigiot-homophobes and accused of not wanting "equality." We are asked, *I* have been asked here, "how will the world end if we allow gay marrige?" My retort has been it will not happen on day one, but wait for the law of unintened consequences.

Well, here is a good essay on some of what may happen.

As marrige is changed from "one man and one woman" it loses a status. So, as some of us said, it is only a matter of time before we may legally have to allow polygamy. Think about it, if we accept an overseas gay-marrige then isn't it discriminatory to not accept a muslim who wants to bring his four wives to live in the USA. And if we accept that then do we not have to allow such marriges here as if we say the overseas marrige is not valid then equality demands we have the same here.

You can call me a "right wing nut" if you want to, but those who know law know I have a point here. The legal argument that marrige is not "one man, one woman" means that the door is open for all kinds of unions. The argument that you will recognize *any* non OMOW marriges means you must recognize *all* such unions.

This was all discussed 7 years ago.

The link to the article is gone. (I am guessing it was deleted).

But, what is wrong with consenting adults in a polygamous marriage? Marriage is essentially a legal contract, if 1 man and 10 women, or 4 men want to enter into marriage what is the issue?

The religious argument against polygamy based on religion, it is featured in both the Bible and Koran... It is also featured in Mormonsim.... So making a religious argument against gay marriage while decrying polygamny does not hold logic....

I Personally have no desire to get married, but I fail to see how polygamy or gay marriage deteriates from any other marriage.... Also, as far as I am concerned any conesnting adults can enter whatever contract that they choose to (I am against marriages before 18 because kids are taking an obligation that will effect them -statistically negatively- for the rest of their lives before they can even be trusted to get a credit card....)

Quote: Gandler

I Personally have no desire to get married, but I fail to see how polygamy or gay marriage deteriates from any other marriage.... Also, as far as I am concerned any conesnting adults can enter whatever contract that they choose to (I am against marriages before 18 because kids are taking an obligation that will effect them -statistically negatively- for the rest of their lives before they can even be trusted to get a credit card....)

I go both ways on this issue. I am not religious so I don't care what the religions think. But as a legal marriage I am also not sure it is practical. How do you handle things like custody of kids, tax implications, and many other things. As a man that has lived with two women, a wife and a "wife" I have a little experience and can see both the good of it and the potential problems.

Quote: DRich

I go both ways on this issue. I am not religious so I don't care what the religions think. But as a legal marriage I am also not sure it is practical. How do you handle things like custody of kids, tax implications, and many other things. As a man that has lived with two women, a wife and a "wife" I have a little experience and can see both the good of it and the potential problems.

I agree, but much of this thread (and the debate in general) is based on religion. (Which is ironic, because divorce should also be illegal if you want biblical marriage laws....)

As for how practical it is, many countries have polygamy, and they find a way to tax it fairly. I agree that it sounds like a nightmare being in a contract with two or more others (one sounds like too much for me lol)….. But, it can (and is) done in various places..... Granted no countries that I would want to live in.....

Again personally I am against the concept of marriage (for me personally, not judging others). But, I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of harshly judging gay couples.....

When I was coming up as a young man, polygamy was so accepted as 'just wrong' that I have internalized that. Reading now any history about the mormons, for example, would have me sympathize with them regarding any injustices that were perpetrated so that they had to keep moving like they did ... but thinking also, well, they did need to do something about that polygamy. It's hard to shake for me.

Polygamy sects today aren't doing any favors to anyone wanting to legalize this. They are typically screwball cults for one thing. And I believe it is true that they try to game the welfare system almost every time, posing their wives as single mothers who need food stamps and welfare, and they get this done too. Of course to the outside world they can present them as such; there are no marriage certificates saying any different. Two that I saw programs on were doing this, though it would be a task to find the details since I don't remember the names.