Is Satan Real

Quote: FrGamble

Finally, the reason why he is the father of sin.

I thought sin existed independently in
the universe, now you say it's somebody's
fault? This is a soap opera, you know.

Won't you hear Satan mentioned all the time in any average Baptist church?

Quote: Wizard

Won't you hear Satan mentioned all the time in any average Baptist church?

Not anymore. They have pretty much retired
the fire and brimstone act in the middle
America churches. You can go a whole year
and never hear him mentioned once. People
are more sophisticated now, they don't like
hearing mumbo jumbo to keep them coming
back to church.

Even the Catholics have let Satan off the hook.

"Since its foundation, the church has taught the existence of the Devil. But in recent decades, progressive priests and bishops, particularly in the United States and Western Europe, have tended to couch Satan in more allegorical terms."

But now they have a Latin American pope,
where Satan is a still a big deal in his
homeland.

“Pope Francis never stops talking about the Devil; it’s constant,” said one senior bishop in Vatican City who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak freely. “Had Pope Benedict done this, the media would have clobbered him.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/a-modern-pope-gets-old-school-on-the-devil/2014/05/10/f56a9354-1b93-4662-abbb-d877e49f15ea_story.html

Quote: Face

Rare it is that I literally LOL. Thanks =D

On Satan, I think I get it. Much like Wiz's views on tenured members, the angels were held to a sort of higher standard. So for them to break is a much more serious offense, as they should have known better.

But, and this thought is just sort of materializing now, you seem to say humans are spared this harsh judgement because we don't have that perfect knowledge. We have Free Will 2.0 and stuff. We make mistakes and do wrongs, but it's OK, as God forgives us. All we need do is ask.

So, if that's true, and I think I follow, what's the point of Jesus? I mean, forget the philosopher and the teacher and the leader... his main goal was to set us free of sin, right? To die for our sins, so we are relieved of them. But pre-Jesus, people were already able to sin and atone, to break a rule and repent. What did his greatest feat accomplish?

Sorry if that sounds childish. While this path may be well trod, this is my first time down it.

It has to do with justice. God's justice like His love is perfect. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and therefore in strict justice we had a problem. We simply could not live according to God's law after the fall. The Old Testament is one story after another of us falling and God giving us a fresh start only to have that new covenant broken and start the whole process over. How do we end this cycle of broken covenants?

By the way those who lived before Jesus could indeed repent and even be forgiven, yet the stain of their sin remained and cried out for justice. Maybe you were playing baseball next to the Chartes Cathedral and you broke their famous stain glass window. That is bad news. You are forgiven, the pastor loves you, but that window is not getting repaired - nobody has the skill or ability to fix it. This is where the idea of Shoel or the Land of the dead comes into play. It is not hell, nor is it heaven. Kind of a land of nothingness but not punishment where the window is always broken.

So someone needs to fulfill the law of god perfectly so that justice will be fulfilled, that truly innocent person who does not need to pay the price for sin, does so in place of all the guilty (that would be us). This sacrifice of Jesus then fulfills perfectly God's justice and demonstrates His perfect love. His feat opened for us the gates of paradise and eternal life and broke down the gates of shoel to liberate those who sought repentance in their lives all the way back to sinful Adam and Eve. Finally someone comes along who has the ability, skill, and willingness to fix the window for us free of charge.

So Satan rebels in the presence of God.

Seems like heavenly bliss isn't enough.

For some people it's never enough unless it's all about them. As they say for some people heaven would be like hell.

Quote: Face

Rare it is that I literally LOL. Thanks =D

You sound for all the world as though I was joking...

Quote:

On Satan, I think I get it. Much like Wiz's views on tenured members, the angels were held to a sort of higher standard. So for them to break is a much more serious offense, as they should have known better.

More like God comes across as an arrogant prick who throws a tantrum when faced with disagreement. Like Stalin.

As long as we're talking about it, are the devil and Satan the same thing? Or are they two of the three parts of an unholy trinity? If so, who/what is the third part? Also, who is the anti-Christ?

Quote: FrGamble

Finally someone comes along who has the ability, skill, and willingness to fix the window for us free of charge.

What a convoluted fairy tale. I like the
part about perfect love and perfect
justice. Everything is oh so perfect
in religion, even the pope and the
Church are infallible, perfect. Too bad
the reality is as far from perfection as
you can get. Kinda makes the word
'perfect' meaningless.

Quote: Wizard

As long as we're talking about it, are the devil and Satan the same thing?

In order to have a perfect god, you most
have the balance of perfect evil, Satan.
They're two sides of the same coin. One
cannot exist without the other. Therefore
they are just concepts, neither exist. Like
the immovable object and the unstoppable
force, concepts that can't exist.

Religion pretends perfect good and perfect
evil are real, and that man is at the center
of the struggle. It's the ultimate ego trip.
Like most religions, Christianity is just
the worship of mans huge ego.