Is Satan Real

Quote: rxwine

Seems like heavenly bliss isn't enough.

In the fairy tale, Satan has to rebel. Good
and evil need each other to exist. One is
impotent without the other to balance it.

One of the things that seems to be missed so far in our discussion of the devil is that evil is not perfect or in any way balances out God's goodness. Remember that in the teaching of the Catholic Church at least, and according to the Bible all things were created good, including Lucifer. All of this is to say evil is far weaker than good. While it is true that for there to be good there has to be the possibility of evil, it does not follow that there necessarily has to be evil. We need freedom to truly love and choose the good, but it is always an abuse of said freedom to choose evil and hate.

Evil and good are not two sides of a coin, nor is evil perfect. Evil is weak in the face of love and goodness. Evil's strength comes from fear not truth. Evil is a deprivation and/or distortion of the good. There is not some epic battle, the outcome of which we don't know, between God and Satan. Evil has already been defeated and what we witness on Earth is its death throes. As anyone knows a desperate creature who knows it has lost and has no hope is not something to be trifled with. The old saying is Satan is a crazed dog on a leash, stay out of its way and it can't hurt you, go within the boundaries of that leash and God help you!

Quote: Wizard

As long as we're talking about it, are the devil and Satan the same thing? Or are they two of the three parts of an unholy trinity? If so, who/what is the third part? Also, who is the anti-Christ?

I always think the unholy trinity is: Me, Myself, and I. This is again what Satan, Lucifer, or the Devil are all about. They are all the same entity and he is all about himself. There is no room for anyone or anything else in the life of evil. It is all about me. You are only good to me if I can use you to bring me pleasure or accomplish something I want to accomplish. It is sick to think about or to write, but that is what is so unholy about it.

If you want to truly understand the devil all you need do is read the excellent book by C.S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters". It is one of the most amazing books I have ever read.

I will defer to Paco for the question on the anit-Christ as I bet he can give us a better answer with a lot more info than I could.

Quote: FrGamble

[..]and according to the Bible all things were created good, including Lucifer. All of this is to say evil is far weaker than good.

Disagreeing with God is evil. Got it.

Not exactly, you can disagree with God why he made the sky blue instead of purple, or why dental work hurts so bad, and numerous other things and that is not evil. However, if you are a self-centered person who cares only for themselves, that is evil and also disagreeing with God.

Quote: FrGamble

One of the things that seems to be missed so far in our discussion of the devil is that evil is not perfect or in any way balances out God's goodness.

I can't even think about all of this, it's
mythical fairy tale concepts that have
no basis in reality. You let yourself
get ensnared in all the mumbo jumbo
and pretty soon you're daffy trying
to make sense of nonsense.

Oh no, am I guilty of 'prideful worry',
which is a sin? lol

This conversation reminds of the Robert Jordan series 'The Wheel of Time'. For you that aren't familiar with it the series is longer than the bible and a second author had to complete the story since Jordan died before he completed it. It was originally planned as a 6 book story and it took 14 very large books to get to a satisfactory conclusion.

As are most fantasy series it is a fight of good against evil or if you prefer God against Satan. The twist in this story is that it examines the dichotomy between the two quite intensively. The conclusion is that good can only exist if there is evil. This results in the conclusion of the story (SPOILER ALERT if you are going to read it).
.

To take it back to this thread 'The Devil' was a necessary creation if we are going to create God. This was realized by all religions from much earlier than Christianity since they all had both good and bad Gods.

I don't know about that. While I maintain that you need the freedom to chose evil in order for there to be true good, I don't think one ever actually has to choose evil. There will be a time when there will be no more evil only good. That will be a great time indeed.

Quote: Evenbob

You let yourself
get ensnared in all the mumbo jumbo
and pretty soon you're daffy trying
to make sense of nonsense.

It is hard to make sense out of nonsense. Sin is nonsense and non-nonsensical. Nobody ever wakes up and says, "Oh boy, I can't wait to hurt myself or others today." "I'm really looking forward to making a mess of my life today!" Yet we do just that. It is a great mystery. If you can come up with a better explanation than a powerful evil spirit at work in the world tempting and luring us to do things we do not want to do I am all ears.

Quote: FrGamble

Not exactly, you can disagree with God why he made the sky blue instead of purple, or why dental work hurts so bad, and numerous other things and that is not evil. However, if you are a self-centered person who cares only for themselves, that is evil and also disagreeing with God.

I'd be ashamed if I made such a flippant argument.

What if you disagree with God about what the purpose of your life should be?

It would seem Galileo was wrong, and the Bible's god intends for people to forgo the use of reason. Otherwise why would complete agreement with God at all times be required?


For an allegedly omnipotent being, this deity is very needy and insecure.