Is Satan Real

Quote: FrGamble

I dub Paco, Face, and the Wizard as the defenders of the faith while I am gone.

I don't know if I should be Defender of The Faith, as I am mostly trying to keep facts straight.

As you may know, in one of the great ironies of history, the title "Defender of the Faith" was a title given by a pope to Henry VIII, long before he broke from the Catholic Church.

The title was passed down through four centuries to Queen Elizabeth II in 1952. Charles seems uncomfortable with it as it stands. Not so much that it is Catholic title given to the head of the Anglican church, but that it is not encompassing of non Christian religion as well. He has proposed changing it to "Defender of Faith" or "Defender of the Faiths (plural)".

Personally, I am OK with the "Head of State" going to an inherited position, but the idea of the "Head of Church" going to an inherited position really does not belong to the modern western world. Charles does not seem to share the religious nature of his mother, and I think he should just give it up.

Quote: FrGamble

My last post for awhile,

Aww.

Quote:

but I just wanted to say I do not believe in the God you are speaking about either. I'm glad to be taking a break on a note of agreement with Nareed (though she will probably not agree).

The latter depends. I was under the impression you believed in the Biblical god. I don't think I am mistaken.

Quote: FrGamble

I dub Paco, Face, and the Wizard as the defenders of the faith while I am gone.

I will try to do you proud! In fact, your timing is very auspicious. The same day you wrote that, yesterday, I was in a nearby thrift store and was looking through the Spanish books and found this one:



It is a bilingual book, meaning it is in both English and Spanish. The title means "We believe." So, expect me to be an expert, on the sacraments at least, in no time!

I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions about them for you by the time you return.

Enjoy your time off Padre. Stay out of trouble.

Quote: FrGamble

God does not force or require your agreement, He is opposite of needy and insecure. He loves you regardless and will patiently forgive us as we learn slowly but surely that His purpose for our lives will ultimately bring us the most happiness, now and forever.

Throughout the Bible there are horrific punishments for people who disagree with God, or who violate orders or commandments issued by God. Lot's Wife, the people who made the Golden Calf, the whole population of Earth at one point, the people who built the Tower of Babble (which, BTW, cannot possibly have been built high enough to reach 100 meters, much less the sky; I'm astonished God didn't know that), and others.

Next up, Christianity develops the notion of Hell as a place for eternal damnation. This puts every one else who may disagree with God's unexplained and, in some ways inexplicable, commandments and orders, on equal footing with the better known people mentioned in the Bible. Punishment for all!

Dante's description of Hell is the best known. I don't know if it's theologically accurate. If it is, then God has a really twisted, sadistic mind. You can burn, drown in waste or in mud, boil in tar, boil in blood, be baked, be lashed, be drawn and quartered, be taken over by six-legged lizards, among other amenities offered in this eternal torture chamber.

Imagine if this entity did not love humanity.

Quote: Wizard

It is a bilingual book, meaning it is in both English and Spanish. The title means "We believe."

The Spanish says "With Jesus in the sacraments," not "we meet Jesus in the sacraments."

Lucky for you, I'm against book burning ;)

Quote: Nareed

Imagine if this entity did not love humanity.

How is the OT any different than a
Grimm's fairy tale. If you read the
actual stories, and don't rely on the
Disney versions, they are full of truly
horrifying events. Scaring ignorant
people into submission was a way to
keep them in line when superstition
ruled the day.

Given that FrG has left me partially in charge, I'm already planning to make a thread titled Catholic sacrament of the week. Start preparing now.

Quote: Nareed

Throughout the Bible there are horrific punishments for people who disagree with God, or who violate orders or commandments issued by God. Lot's Wife, the people who made the Golden Calf, the whole population of Earth at one point, the people who built the Tower of Babble (which, BTW, cannot possibly have been built high enough to reach 100 meters, much less the sky; I'm astonished God didn't know that), and others.

Next up, Christianity develops the notion of Hell as a place for eternal damnation. This puts every one else who may disagree with God's unexplained and, in some ways inexplicable, commandments and orders, on equal footing with the better known people mentioned in the Bible. Punishment for all!

Dante's description of Hell is the best known. I don't know if it's theologically accurate. If it is, then God has a really twisted, sadistic mind. You can burn, drown in waste or in mud, boil in tar, boil in blood, be baked, be lashed, be drawn and quartered, be taken over by six-legged lizards, among other amenities offered in this eternal torture chamber.

Imagine if this entity did not love humanity.

I guess I have to defend the faith now, as it was tasked upon me. Let me get changed real quick...



Ok. And lo! We come to the tale of Lucifer the fallen, and etc and so forth, and we ring a bell and we pray.

While I can vaguely remember some atrocities from my readings a long time ago, I think the biggest pain has gone unmentioned. That being the loss of God's love. I think any example, such as boiling oil, would be disregarded by FrG as immaterial, if not outright false. Because it's all about God and his love, and the absence of it is far worse than any physical pain one could imagine.

I also might mention that another thought is that Lucifer Satan himself lives in a world of ice, not fire. That he is actually encased in it. I suspect that the worst of the worst are frozen there with him. Outside of God's love, permanently encased in hielo del diablo.

{whisper= please don't ask about purgatory, please don't ask about purgatory /whisper}

Quote: Face

{whisper= please don't ask about purgatory, please don't ask about purgatory /whisper}

Why, it's just more childish nonsense. If you
came up with this crap today, they would lock
you up and put you on meds.

Purgatory for Dummies

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/catholicism-and-purgatory.html

Quote: Face

While I can vaguely remember some atrocities from my readings a long time ago, I think the biggest pain has gone unmentioned. That being the loss of God's love. I think any example, such as boiling oil, would be disregarded by FrG as immaterial, if not outright false. Because it's all about God and his love, and the absence of it is far worse than any physical pain one could imagine.

We could try a simple thought experiment. Imagine yourself boiling in oil. now imagine yourself not being loved by God.

But it would be useless, as I'm sure a believer would tell me you cannot imagine the loss of God's love, or that it needs to be experienced, etc, etc.

Quote:

I also might mention that another thought is that Lucifer Satan himself lives in a world of ice, not fire. That he is actually encased in it.

Dante portrays a frozen section of Hell. Satan is there. And here's one of the contradictions. Satan is described as torturing certain sinners. Why would he do this if he's "against" God?

Quote:

I suspect that the worst of the worst are frozen there with him. Outside of God's love, permanently encased in hielo del diablo.

Hell is supposed to get worse as you go down the nine circles. Lambau Field, I mean the frozen area, is the ninth. As I've never been burned or frozen alive , I could not say which is worse.