Who are happier -- Christians or Atheists?

Well folks, I thought this thread was a poll so I was going to caste my happiest vote for Blondes or The Pass Line.

I would like to rejoin the discussion after a cup of coffee, if I can wake up enough to make a cup of coffee that is.

Right now I have to rush out to the local Catholic Church for a Flash Mob ... we are all going to meet there and demand our ten days back from the Gregorian Calendar.

Happiness has nothing to do with Christianity. I know happy Christians, I know happy atheists. I know unhappy people of both.

People are people, regardless. Treat them as such without regard for their beliefs.

Quote: Mosca

Happiness has nothing to do with Christianity.

Absolutely!

I'm a happy idiot.

Quote: Mosca

Happiness has nothing to do with Christianity. .

Totally agree, one has nothing to do with
the other. My point was, for people who
constantly mention the 'joy' associated
with the religion, you would think they
be more joyful than the average Joe.
They're not, so it just sounds silly when
they talk about joy all the time.

Quote: Evenbob

Totally agree, one has nothing to do with
the other. My point was, for people who
constantly mention the 'joy' associated
with the religion, you would think they
be more joyful than the average Joe.
They're not, so it just sounds silly when
they talk about joy all the time.

I have to disagree here. I don't think it's a matter of degree, or a thing that can be measured and compared. Neither you nor I experience that joy, but FrGamble does. At least, I don't doubt his sincerity when he says that he does. Is it more joy or less joy than another person? Who knows. Until we get a joymeter, that question is unanswerable.

It's not like I get a choice; it is impossible for me to believe. I don't see the world that way. And it started early; as soon as I could think for myself I didn't believe. Maybe, 10 or 11 years old. But by the same token, it's not like FrGamble (sorry to use you as an example, FrG, but I know you won't mind) gets to pick, either. His belief is as much a part of him as his eyes are, or even more. He didn't choose it. It is just there.

There's no sense torturing people over them being who they have to be.

Quote: Mosca

I don't think it's a matter of degree, or a thing that can be measured and compared..

Of course it can be measured and compared.
When somebody tells me they're joyful
Christian and yet they have a terrible marriage
and treat their spouse like crap, on a joy scale
of 1-10, they get a zero. It's just meaningless
words they spout.

My wife's sisters are all that way. They constantly
post joyful Christian messages on FB, yet in real
life they are miserable people. They all treat their
husbands like dog crap on the bottom of their
shoes, have horrible unhappy marriages, yet will
do nothing about it because they would pay a
dear price in their church if they got a divorce.

They are as far from joyful as you can get, so
are most of the Christians I know.

Quote: FrGamble

You know not what you are asking for.

Do you want to bet on it?

Quote:

This would lead to the rise of Christianity the likes of which the world hasn't seen since after the Resurrection!

Great. After the alleged resurrection there were but a handful of Christians, confined to a small area of what is now Israel. I wouldn't mind seeing that again.

Of course, none of this will ever happen.

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By rejecting sacrifice you are justifying the totalitarian regime of your own passions and wants. Your tyrant becomes yourself and we all become your unwilling subjects.

I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

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They removed a loving God, pretty essential to the success of Christianity.

So they substitute one mythical figure for another.

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They took its greatest idea, sacrifice, and perverted and twisted it towards evil and a powerful few.

No perversion was required. Sacrifice itself is a perverted, depraved, idea. Pretty much it means "take that which is the most valuable possession you can ever own, your soul, and give it up in service of something 'greater' than yourself."

This is asked by religion, not only Christianity, nay, demanded, because your soul isn't yours by right, but rather it was given to you by God. So it's not as though you can decided whether or not you ought to give it up. the decision is not yours to make.

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The same hostility that lead to so many heroic efforts on behalf of the Church to save Jews throughout Europe?

The Pope's silence on the issue was highly eloquent.

I will readily admit several people did their utmost. I don't know how many did so out of Christian conviction. people like Roul Wallenberg (later executed by the Soviets), King Christian X of Denmark, the whole of Sweden (which took in most Danish Jews), and many more.

I do know in very devoutly Catholic Poland, the Nazis found plenty of volunteers to run their death camps. Their country was defeated and humiliated, their cities were occupied brutally, yet there was no shortage of volunteers to kill Jews.

Do the math.

Quote: Nareed

Great. After the alleged resurrection there were but a handful of Christians, confined to a small area of what is now Israel.

And from this handful of Christians the faith in Jesus Christ spread around the world and has impacted human history in a way that boggles the mind to think about. It has happened before and it will happen again. Our current pope longs for what he calls a "poor Church" for exactly this reason. The faith grows the most through loving sacrifice and service. You would lose the bet just on the example of Mother Teresa alone. Look what she did for the faith by doing nothing more than lifting dying beggars out of the sewers in Calcutta. If we had the courage, faith, and trust to return to the example of Christ and the early Church even you could not resist the outpouring of grace that would cover the world.

Quote:

No perversion was required. Sacrifice itself is a perverted, depraved, idea. Pretty much it means "take that which is the most valuable possession you can ever own, your soul, and give it up in service of something 'greater' than yourself."

I'm sorry but this is what makes absolutely no sense at all. You are asking us to reject every good movie we have ever seen. Any book or poetry that ever made us cry. You are asking us to laugh at and mock our mothers, service men and women, and anyone who is crazy enough to truly love. Sacrifice is the heart of the greatest story ever told and any person or story we truly value and are inspired by is an echo of this greatest human act of giving ourselves in service of something greater than yourself.

Quote: FrGamble

is an echo of this greatest human act of giving ourselves in service of something greater than yourself.

But Jesus knew he was god, knew he would
die some day anyway, knew he would rise
from the dead. There was no sacrifice, not
even any risk. When you know the exact
outcome of an event, where is the risk.
He was god, you said so yourself the other
day.