Bombardier CS300
October 12th, 2017 at 11:22:48 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
I don't have the figures at hand, but I recall that the MAX 7 and the A319 have an empty weight far higher than the CS 300. That's due, I assume, to the former two being shrunken medium jets vs the latter being a scaled up light jet (also perhaps to a more extensive use of composites). Imagine if Boeing had developed a 727 replacement. Say they bet right and make a clean slate small twinjet with the engines at the back (using turbofans rather than turbojets) for 50 passengers. That's very like the CRJs Bombardier made, of course. But that's the market Boeing either gave up or never was interested in. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
October 12th, 2017 at 11:45:35 AM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | I don't know if you would call that "far higher", but they have a longer range. JFK to LHR is 2,994 nautical miles CS300 Max. takeoff weight 149,000 lb Max. landing weight 129,500 lb Max. zero-fuel weight 123,000 lb Maximum range 3,300 nmi B737MAX-7 Maximum takeoff weight 177,000 lb Maximum landing weight 145,600 lb Maximum zero fuel weight 138,700 lb Maximum range 3,825 nmi A319neo Max. takeoff weight 166,400 lb Max. landing weight 140,900 lb Max. zero-fuel weight 132,900 lb Maximum range 3,750 nmi Irkut MC-21-300 Maximum take-off weight 174,720 lb Maximum landing weight 152,300 lb C919 specifications Maximum take-off weight 159,835 lb ====================================== CS100 (smaller plane) Max. takeoff weight 134,000 lb Max. landing weight 115,500 lb Max. zero-fuel weight 111,000 lb |
October 12th, 2017 at 12:00:34 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
The A319 is about 7% higher, which I concede is not "far" higher. The MAX 7 is over 12%, which I maintain is "far" higher. Max TO weight is even worse, with 18% for the MAX. If you had 10 MAX 7s loaded to capacity, you'd have enough mass for 11.8 CS 300s loaded to capacity. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
October 12th, 2017 at 12:06:37 PM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Which is probably why the Bombardier is far outselling both planes. But the range is shorter with the CS300s (that seems to matter to almost nobody). JFK to LHR is 2,994 nautical miles CS300 Maximum range 3,300 nmi B737MAX-7 Maximum range 3,825 nmi A319neo Maximum range 3,750 nmi |
October 12th, 2017 at 12:42:20 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
ergo my observation that scaling down a mid size jet doesn't work as well as designing a smaller, lighter jet. Full circle! :)
My assumption is that most of these planes have more range than they need for most missions. So paying for extra range with extra mass, meaning extra fuel, is bad operational economics. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
October 12th, 2017 at 1:14:29 PM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Boeing doesn't think there is much of a market anymore for a smaller lighter jet. |
October 12th, 2017 at 1:29:45 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Boeing has been wrong before. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
January 7th, 2018 at 11:23:32 AM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
An updated fleet plan shows that Southwest airlines will add only seven 737 Max 7s in 2019. They will now receive 12 in 2023 and the remaining 11 in 2024. Orders for the MAX-7 variant are ridiculously small with Southwest Airlines (30), WestJet (23), Canada Jetlines (5) . Now with Southwest only taking 7 deliveries and deferring the remaining orders for four years, the production line is getting even shorter. There seems to be almost no demand for this jet, as well as for the A319neo. Perhaps with Boeing acquiring Embraer, they will upsize their jets. Embraer E195 (largest jet) Maximum takeoff weight 115,280 lb Maximum range 2,300 nmi |
January 7th, 2018 at 12:46:50 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Doens't that wreck Southwest's fleet strategy? Remember when they bought ValuJet, they got rid of the all the DC-9 variants very fast, even if some were branded as Boeing 717. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
January 7th, 2018 at 3:08:15 PM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
I am actually shocked that they are buying so few of a single variant. I think they are not going to buy any of these, but Boeing doesn't want to tip their hand yet. Southwest fleet 511 Boeing 737-700 =143 seats 181 Boeing 737-800 = 175 seats Deliveries through 2018. 13 Boeing 737 MAX 8 =175 seats 197 on order 7 Boeing 737 MAX 7 Launch customer; scheduled to enter service in 2019. | 23 aircraft deferred past 2023. |