Reincarnation

Quote: FrGamble

you look past these things put using our reason we all agree on what perfection is.

Perfection is arbitrary, what's perfect to
one person is utter crap to another. If
your goal is to be perfect, you will never
achieve it because the state of perfection
cannot exist. It's an ideal, not a real thing.

What is utter crap is your comments about perfection. We all want pretty much the same thing - to love and be loved.

Why can't perfection exist? An idea is a real thing, often more powerful and useful than anything an empiricist would say is real.

Quote: FrGamble

Why can't perfection exist?

Because ideals exist as targets, not actual
goals. As a target it's useful, as a goal it's
ridiculous. Its also egocentric in the extreme,
as is all of Christianity.

Quote: Evenbob

Because ideals exist as targets, not actual
goals. As a target it's useful, as a goal it's
ridiculous. Its also egocentric in the extreme,
as is all of Christianity.

Why you set as a target something that is not real?

Listen don't you want to be the best you can possibly be? I hope so and the world would be a much better place if everyone desired to be better. Sin will always get in the way but we continue to strive to be perfect. It is our target and it is real, but we need help to get there. We won't ever achieve perfection in this broken world. However, it is clear that our target is perfection - that is what we really want. Don't let atheism depress you and convince you that you can't reach it. Atheism is such a bummer, I wish you could see yourself as God see you.

Quote: FrGamble

Why you set as a target something that is not real?

Because targets should always be set
high, we should always try and over
achieve. That way we might make some
progress. If our goals are mediocre, so
will our achievements be mediocre.

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However, it is clear that our target is perfection - that is what we really want.

We all want things we can't have and
are impossible. Why should you be any
different.

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Atheism is such a bummer, .

Does realism have an place in your pie
in the sky views? Where is faith in all
of this nonsense. Christianity is a faith
based religion, is it not? Meaning you
base your beliefs on things that can't be
proven. Is medicine a faith based science?
It's fact based, we don't ask people to take
meds on faith, we have peer reviewed
evidence that show they work.

Your religion has no proof of anything. Do
prayers work? Sometimes, but mostly not.
Was Jesus born of a virgin? Who knows,
no evidence. Did he rise from the dead, is
he the son of god, did he die for our sins?
Is sin real? Who knows, there's no evidence
for any of it. I mean real evidence, not 2000
year old hearsay.

So is your religion faith based or not. It seems
to drive you crazy that it is.

We often do ask people to take meds on faith and hope they work. We know why they should work and we have lots of examples as to how they have worked for many people in the past, but there is no guarantee.

This is why I find your use of the word faith so troubling and why it drives me crazy. You think faith is a leap in the dark without any reason, evidence, or thought behind the decision. In this you are completely wrong. Faith is an act of reason based on our knowledge and the history we know of. Just like medicine we know that Christianity has healed and helped countless people in the past and still does today; therefore you can be confident in accepting Christianity into your life. This does take faith, but not some blind leap. After this act of faith then you experience the wonderful results like medicine that really works.

Quote: FrGamble

We know why they should work and we have lots of examples as to how they have worked for many people in the past,

That's evidence, there is no proof. There is little
proof of anything in medicine. It's all based on
hard core evidence, which religion is not.

Quote:

Just like medicine we know that Christianity has healed and helped countless people in the past and still does today;

And just like medicine, do you have peer
reviewed research showing the evidence
to be true? Heck no. All you have is hearsay
and conjecture. If Christians had such evidence,
we'd hear them crowing about it every day.
Instead we get the usual sound of crickets..

Surely you are not doubting the evidence that Christianity has healed and/or helped countless people over the years? This is fact and you can begin with me or your wife and her family. We all are the people we are today thanks to Christ. I can bring in a billion or so other people if you would like.

Now I know you are going to say that just because a lot of people have been helped by Christianity doesn't mean it is true. You would be right, it is not proof, but it is solid verifiable evidence the same as the medical field has with all the example of people that have been helped by this medicine.

Quote: FrGamble

Surely you are not doubting the evidence that Christianity has healed and/or helped countless people over the years? .

Present the peer reviewed scientific evidence and
I'll look at it. The Church used to have undeniable
evidence that witches cursed crops, dried up wells
and cows, and made women produce stillborn
children. They were so convinced by the evidence
they killed the witches for it. This went on for
hundreds and hundreds of years.

So excuse me if I'm a little skeptical of the 'evidence'
the Church has for anything, let alone healing people
evidence.

I'll tell you what you present the peer reviewed scientific evidence that Catholic Church killed witches for hundreds and hundreds of years.