Gigafactory

Quote: Evenbob

The gov't gave them 5bil and it's losing $4000
on every car they sell? Nice way to run
a business.

Don't take that $4,000 number too seriously, guys. The media makes it sound like it costs $74,000 to build a $70,000 Model S.

So where did the number come from? Tesla delivered 11,532 cars in the 2nd quarter 2015, and had an operating loss of $47 million. We shouldn't use that methodology. But if we're going to use that stupid methodology, then by that logic Tesla earned $3,061 in profit on each vehicle sold in the first quarter of 2013 (4,900 cars sold with an operating profit of $15 million.) Don't take that $3,061 number too seriously either, guys.

***

Nevertheless, they're burning through enormous piles of cash. They're spending $1.5 billion to bring the new SUV to market. (Musk says it will be on the market by October, but realistically, it will probably arrive in December.) Every automaker spends that kind of money to bring a brand new vehicle to market; for example, Toyota spent $1 billion to build the first Prius, and that was way back in 1997. It's never cheap.

Tesla reported $831 million in capital spending during the first half of the year, indicating it will spend roughly another $700 million. Where's all that money going? Some of it is spent on retooling the Fremont factory for the SUV, and the rest is being spent on... the gigafactory.

Quote: kenarman

If accidents aren't a cost what are they? Accidents will always happen, the goal is 0 accidents but it can never be reached. If we make the cost of an accident so high that it can bankrupt any company than no one will risk any or their capital anymore.

Accidents compared to what other accidents? Let me know when a solar plant blows up and the area is evacuated for years or decades and what the total cost is?

And it is disingenuous to compare accidents to other costs. Basically, an accident forces everyone involved to set a price on everything whether they want to or not. And then take the best offer after negotiation usually. Hardly a sellers or buyers market for either party.

Thousands maybe 100s of thousands of people have fought with insurance companies over compensation -- and that is when they have insurance.

That's what I'm talking about in dissatisfaction with settlements. In my few experiences accidents caused by others have never been worth the hassle in supposed compensation and I'm only talking about my vehicles. Maybe I will have a new experience someday. But I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that view.

Quote: rxwine

In my few experiences accidents caused by others have never been worth the hassle in supposed compensation and I'm only talking about my vehicles.

My wife has a nephew who has the
crappy job of claims adjuster. He
makes a lot of money because nobody
wants the job. People are never happy
with what they get, it's never enough.

His bosses tell him his job is to give the
client the least amount he can and make
them like it. It's a really shit job because
you get called names and have people screaming
at you every day. I think he's a sociopath
anyway, he was married 3 times by the time
he was 30. A couple years with this guy and
women went running in the other direction.

It was 3 times in 6 years, he got married the
first time at 24. He's fave thing is hunting, he
loves to kill things. He goes all the way to
Montana every year because they have a big
diversity of game there.

It doesn't seem fair, though. Cost doesn't always (or ever) equate with value. My truck, for example, has a lot of value to me. I ain't never had a single issue with it. Sure, I blew a brake line, and the connections for the crash sensors go and set of my airbag light, but the thing is mechanically sound. I'd drive it to Alaska while towing a boat tomorrow if I had to, and wouldn't think twice about an issue.

If I totaled it, I'd be screwed. What would an adjuster pay? KBB value? More? Less? My truck on paper ain't worth but ~$3,500. There is no way possible I'd be able to get a like replacement in the same condition for $3,500. $3,500 is gonna have me gambling with some roadside purchase that has 180k and 5 different owners.

I would probably bitch that the payment wasn't enough. But I think I'd be justified in doing so.

Quote: Face

If I totaled it, I'd be screwed. What would an adjuster pay? KBB value? More? Less? My truck on paper ain't worth but ~$3,500. There is no way possible I'd be able to get a like replacement in the same condition for $3,500. $3,500 is gonna have me gambling with some roadside purchase that has 180k and 5 different owners.

This was always a rough thing. People (like me) run cars until the wheels fall off. But during the run it comes a point that you know the car you have and maybe you even kept it up better than average. So your 9 year old vehicle with 4-5 good years left gets totaled and you have to go out and look at junk to replace it. Such is life of us frugal folks.

Quote: AZDuffman

This was always a rough thing. People (like me) run cars until the wheels fall off. But during the run it comes a point that you know the car you have and maybe you even kept it up better than average. So your 9 year old vehicle with 4-5 good years left gets totaled and you have to go out and look at junk to replace it. Such is life of us frugal folks.

You should have seen my 75 Elcamino. People respected me in an intersection and parked twenty feet away at the grocery store. Posi-trac and a Super sport 400, we are talking value here. I could see the horror in the eyes of new car owners when I would park near them : )

It had been parked out in the salt air for twenty or so years, hardly a spot on it that wasn't rusted. Baby would get up an go though, wasn't always sure it would stop?

Quote: rxwine

Accidents compared to what other accidents? Let me know when a solar plant blows up and the area is evacuated for years or decades and what the total cost is?

And it is disingenuous to compare accidents to other costs. Basically, an accident forces everyone involved to set a price on everything whether they want to or not. And then take the best offer after negotiation usually. Hardly a sellers or buyers market for either party.

Thousands maybe 100s of thousands of people have fought with insurance companies over compensation -- and that is when they have insurance.

That's what I'm talking about in dissatisfaction with settlements. In my few experiences accidents caused by others have never been worth the hassle in supposed compensation and I'm only talking about my vehicles. Maybe I will have a new experience someday. But I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that view.

Your solar example is why you need to look at the cost of an "accident" per unit of production. For small solar facilities a claim that causes a few millions of dollars in damages might be more per KWH than a nuclear accident.

Although we generally only kill a few people at a time how many people are killed each year by automobile accidents. Society however finds that the cost of this destruction per mile travelled is acceptable.

Quote: AZDuffman

At what point does sanity take over and people realize this is not viable? I hold to my previous statements that the guy is selling stock, not cars. This has to crash sooner or later, maybe next year in September?

Musk is buying stock. He's already Tesla's largest individual shareholder with 35.5 million shares at last count (amounting to 27% ownership). He will buy an additional $20 million in stock (82,600 shares). His Tesla holdings are currently worth $8.6 billion, nearly two-thirds of his $13.1 billion total net worth.

The additional $20 million that Musk is investing doesn't make much of an impact on his overall holdings, but symbolically, it's a significant gesture. Wall Street loves a vote of confidance from a man with insider knowledge.

Imagine an electric vehicle battery that is charged wirelessly by equipment buried under the asphalt of the road.

South Korea already has a 12 kilometer road that charges electric buses.The wireless technology that vehicles use is called SMFIR—it stands for shaped magnetic field in resonance—which involves the transfer of electric charge via magnetic fields that are generated and captured by coils installed in the road and car respectively.

They're implementing the same idea in England, for buses on the Number 7 route, which covers 25km (15 miles) between the Milton Keynes suburbs of Wolverton and Bletchley and carries an estimated 800,000 passengers a year. After a night charging at the depot, the buses will receive booster charges throughout the day at the start and end of the route. There, the bus parks over plates buried in the road. The driver then lowers receiver plates on the bottom of the bus to within 4cm of the road surface and the bus is charged for around 10 minutes before resuming service.

Quote: reno

Quote: AZDuffman

At what point does sanity take over and people realize this is not viable? I hold to my previous statements that the guy is selling stock, not cars. This has to crash sooner or later, maybe next year in September?

Musk is buying stock. He's already Tesla's largest individual shareholder with 35.5 million shares at last count (amounting to 27% ownership). He will buy an additional $20 million in stock (82,600 shares). His Tesla holdings are currently worth $8.6 billion, nearly two-thirds of his $13.1 billion total net worth.

He might be buying some personally, but the company is selling it That is what I am saying. He is trying to get as many people as possible investing.