Gigafactory

Quote: reno

Once you get up into the Arctic Circle, owning any car (gasoline or not) can be a challenge. There's a reason that engine block warmers for gasoline cars have been around since the 1940s.

Norway's EV sales have been huge since 2013, so the market has had 4 years to either confirm or debunk the "cold kills batteries" myth. Tesla owners in Norway say cold weather reduces range by 20%. That's not negligible. But for the 220-mile range Model 3, that means it still gets 176 miles.

It's no myth. Cold kills batteries. Ask anyone who lives in the northern states.

Quote: AZDuffman

It's no myth. Cold kills batteries. Ask anyone who lives in the northern states.

Then why are EVs so popular in Norway?

Here's a theory: since even gasoline cars that far north need to be plugged in before bedtime (block warmers), owning an EV isn't any more inconvenient. Either way, you're plugging in a car.

Now consider what happens on a freezing cold January morning: the gasoline car owner has to walk outside and turn on the car, go back inside, and let the engine run for 10-15 minutes before driving off to work. (Do cars ever get stolen while they're warming up unattended?)

But the morning is different for the Tesla owner. He uses an app on his phone to set an automatic timer to preheat the interior cabin of the car. He does this without leaving the house. While the car is pre-heating, the electricity is coming from his house, not from the battery, so getting the interior cabin toasty warm won't affect his range.

Quote: reno

Then why are EVs so popular in Norway?

Here's a theory: since even gasoline cars that far north need to be plugged in before bedtime (block warmers), owning an EV isn't any more inconvenient. Either way, you're plugging in a car.

Now consider what happens on a freezing cold January morning: the gasoline car owner has to walk outside and turn on the car, go back inside, and let the engine run for 10-15 minutes before driving off to work. (Do cars ever get stolen while they're warming up unattended?)

But the morning is different for the Tesla owner. He uses an app on his phone to set an automatic timer to preheat the interior cabin of the car. He does this without leaving the house. While the car is pre-heating, the electricity is coming from his house, not from the battery, so getting the interior cabin toasty warm won't affect his range.

You are not keeping up with the times reno. As you may remember I live in a part of Canada that it does occassionaly reach 40 below. Any vehicles around here that are mid range in price or up come c/w with a remote starter, you can also buy after market kits. This means you sit in your house push a button and the vehicle starts and warms up the engine and interior without ever going outside. Most vehicles also start just fine down to about 0 F without having the block heater plugged in.

Norway actually doesn't get all that cold I just looked up the January temperature and got the following.

"In January, the average temperature in Norway is somewhere in between −6 °C (21 °F) and 3 °C (37 °F). Like neighboring Norway, Finland averages −6 °C (21 °F) to 1 °C (34 °F) in the month of January."

Lots of areas in the US get colder than that.

Quote: kenarman

Any vehicles around here that are mid range in price or up come c/w with a remote starter, you can also buy after market kits. This means you sit in your house push a button and the vehicle starts and warms up the engine and interior without ever going outside. Most vehicles also start just fine down to about 0 F without having the block heater plugged in.

Wow, that's an awesome feature, thanks for the correction. I lived in Grand Forks, North Dakota for a couple winters in the 1980s, and we never had this convenience.

Quote: kenarman

Norway actually doesn't get all that cold I just looked up the January temperature and got the following.

"In January, the average temperature in Norway is somewhere in between −6 °C (21 °F) and 3 °C (37 °F). Like neighboring Norway, Finland averages −6 °C (21 °F) to 1 °C (34 °F) in the month of January."

These statistics also might explain why EV battery performance isn't a big deal in Norway.

Oslo is much farther north than the coldest big cities in Canada, (Calgary, Winnipeg) but much warmer. Proximity to the ocean must make a big difference.

Quote: reno

Oslo is much farther north than the coldest big cities in Canada, (Calgary, Winnipeg) but much warmer. Proximity to the ocean must make a big difference.

OF COURSE.
Tromsø Norway at latitude 69°40′58″N has been occupied since the Ice Ages (66°34′N is Arctic Ocean). During the 19th century, Tromsø became known as the "Paris of the North".

Although you would expect a polar city would regularly have freezing temperatures, the lowest temperature ever recorded at Tromso is −1.1 °F, in February 1966, which was probably warmer than the homes of most people on this forum.

Exception on this forum is Mexico City where at Tacubaya observatory, the lowest temperature ever registered was 24.1 °F on February 13, 1960.

On the other hand it normally doesn't go above 60 °F in the middle of the summer in Tromso with the highest temperature ever recorded at 86.4 °F in July 1972.

Lilyhammer is a Norwegian-American television series starring Steven Van Zandt, about a former New York-based gangster named Frank "The Fixer" Tagliano trying to start a new life in isolated Lillehammer, Norway. The first season premiered on Norwegian NRK1 on 25 January 2012.

Frank makes fun of all the electric cars

Quote: reno

Then why are EVs so popular in Norway?

But the morning is different for the Tesla owner. He uses an app on his phone to set an automatic timer to preheat the interior cabin of the car. He does this without leaving the house. While the car is pre-heating, the electricity is coming from his house, not from the battery, so getting the interior cabin toasty warm won't affect his range.

The warm up won't affect it, but the cold still will. Maybe it does not get cold enough to really be a killer. But you are talking to a guy who has had a car not crank when it got <0F then a day or two later the cold snap broke and the car cranked perfect.

Cold kills batteries.

One more thing, for those that live in LV or Phoenix, heat kills the life of batteries. You get two years on a car battery there, as I learned the hard way.

Quote: AZDuffman

One more thing, for those that live in LV or Phoenix, heat kills the life of batteries. You get two years on a car battery there, as I learned the hard way.

If you read about the Tesla batteries the heat is more of a concern than the cold as far as damaging the battery. I saw a warning I believe was on the Tesla site but may have been elsewhere that they should not be used at 45 C or higher.

Quote: kenarman

If you read about the Tesla batteries the heat is more of a concern than the cold as far as damaging the battery. I saw a warning I believe was on the Tesla site but may have been elsewhere that they should not be used at 45 C or higher.

Heat shortens the life of a battery, cold reduced the power it will produce.