The Discomfort Thread

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May 6th, 2015 at 9:51:28 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 5129
Pain, discomfort and Political Correctness.

Let us not be politically correct in this thread. There is a dolorometer scale for a reason.

The first question I would have for Face is what have the various quacks said about the nature of the injury versus the amount of pain that you suffer from time to time. The first thing to eliminate is RSD Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy which is pain that is too great and too persistent for the degree of actual injury. It usually indicates an infected nerve and treatment is utterly different from what treatment there would be if the pain were considered to be normal for the type of injury defined.

Now as to adaptation and addiction... yeah, you bet. Addicts can be given saline solution and if told its heroin will get high and if told its naloxone will come out of the stupor instantly.
Some people take heroin and go gardening or go prepare a class lesson. Some people take heroin and are strung out junkies.

Drugs versus herbs. Sorry Charlie. Same thing with different labels and different laws. A Chimpanzee goes out one morning and instead of stuffing his mouth with leaves for breakfast he carefully selects the young leaves and folds them rather than chewing them before swallowing them. That is known as taking a drug. And its done when the Chimp has intestinal parasites. Drugs and herbs have different legal consequences but medically the consequence can and often will be for herbs is DEATH. Particularly European herbs where potency is high and consumer knowledge of herbs is expected to be high as well. Knowledge of herbs is very low in the USA despite what hippies and salesmen try to tell you.

Before herbs, I'd try some food that has to sit around before it goes good, ie, fermented. Why do you think squirrels bury nuts in the soil and then go back to eat them later? If fermented foods don't help then I'd go for herbs. And if you look at Chines Rx it often doesn't matter what or how much. For pain, I'd start with Sea Buckthorn, but I'm in Florida and Sea Buckthorn thrives largely in the PNW and in Permaculture/hippie communes because its also a nitrogen fixer that aids the growth of other plants. Could I find it in Florida if I really needed to? Sure and there is always the Internet and FedEx to make sure its really "fresh".

The main thing is that inter disc space is viewed by doctors as gelatin filled and gelatin is viewed as biologically inert insulation. It ain't. Same thing with synovial fluid. This "like an egg" fluid is generally studied only in knee pain and all treatments and analysis extrapolated from knee joint studies of people in great pain. Great source of information that is.

So start with the defined injury, the amount and type of pain, make the RSD or not decision and go on from there.

More later, IF you ask for it.
May 6th, 2015 at 11:08:43 PM permalink
Face
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3167
Quote: Fleastiff

The first question I would have for Face is what have the various quacks said about the nature of the injury versus the amount of pain that you suffer from time to time. The first thing to eliminate is RSD Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy which is pain that is too great and too persistent for the degree of actual injury. It usually indicates an infected nerve and treatment is utterly different from what treatment there would be if the pain were considered to be normal for the type of injury defined.


What have they said? Pfft. I hardly know. It's been a tough road. Part of that is my fault, but the rest...

I probably went to the docs 4 or 5 times before anything was done. It was always "ibuprofen and rest and warm compresses". MF'er, do you think I would be here if it was that simple? I'm not really one to suffer fools or waste time now. 24yr old Face was much, much less patient. It wasn't until the 5th or 6th time until I finally ran into my government approved drug dealer. He hits me with the vikes, and miracle of miracles, I finally had days where I didn't hurt. Of course, as I have said, that doesn't last forever. Tolerance is a bitch.

So I returned and returned and returned again. After about 4 more times of just being sent home with pills, I started asking for different docs. Both, right in a row, told me to stop. That's it, just stop. I was a two sport athlete (3 if you count freestyle motocross) and they just told me to stop. I was 24/25, and everything I was, they told me to stop. I was furious. I had been given no tests, no one could even tell me what was wrong, and their answer was to basically end my entire being. So F it, gimme the pills. What other choice did I have? Effing doctors. That still boils my blood, some ten years later.

So after a few years, I got sent to the chiro. Quackery, maybe, but I needed some options. It was causing actual depression, being crippled at the rip old age of 25. The processes was easy and painless physically, but they said it's a cumulative process and I needed to attend three times a week for at least 6 months. That was some $400 a month, man! Weren't no way. So we compromised and I came regularly, but not as often. Day of adjustment, totally fine, no change. The day after, like I got hit by a truck and dragged three quarters a mile down a cobblestone road. Just agony, in every joint I had and more that I didn't even know I owned. And after some 8 sessions or so, I thought I noticed an improvement on about the third day post adjustment. And the day after that, right back to no change. It wasn't worth the money, the pain, hell, it wasn't worth the 15 minutes out of my life for relief that fleeting. So I stopped going after about 4 months.

Finally, I got sent to the Buffalo center for sports science, the guys that worked on that Bill what broke his neck on the field. They guaranteed relief, they were the best of the best. I got my MRI which showed the squashed disks. I went two or three times, each time they just reviewed the film. And I started getting pissed again. WTF you need me here for? YOU look. Figure it out. Then call me ONCE, and tell me the deal. Christ, but I hate medics. They basically said what has been squashed cannot be unsquashed. It'll just get worse and worse until you are finally forced to stop, and then maybe surgery will be on the table. For now, surgery was out of the question. Best I could do is f#$%ing anti inflammatories and rest. Right back where we started. The only other option was rehab, as perhaps building up my core would give it more support and provide relief. And that I never did. I found my own ways to deal with it.

So it's just broke and ain't no way to fix it. Like a bad U-joint, it'll just be bad until it finally goes. Nothing to do but keep on motoring until it does. So that's what I do.

As far as infection, doubt it. I'm not all that learned on that stuff, but I've no reason to suspect it. And anyways, it's just pain. It can't last forever =p
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
May 6th, 2015 at 11:32:50 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 121
Posts: 5531
The body is capable of healing injuries up to a point. Thermal injuries heal fine if you don't mind a scar, up to a point. If an area is burned bad enough and big enough the injury healing is maladaptive. The skin will overgrow left on its own which is why a burn will end up in pressure garments or devices and or need skin grafts and none is as good as original material.

I think it's the same for much of the body. Fractures can heal without casts or splints. I've done it myself, as long the bones are in the right place. OTOH, you keep bashing an area beyond reason, the body says FUMF, you aint's gettin' shit from me, stay a cripple then.
No one has ever proven I am not God.
May 7th, 2015 at 2:53:55 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 103
Posts: 7140
Quote: Face


I suspect you rather meant what causes addiction. That is harder. I mean, it's caused by the rewiring of the brain, making it consider drugs on the same level it considers breathing or eating. But the how and why behind that I don't think has been solved. Some indeed are simply more susceptible. It is confirmed that it is guided in some part by genetics. Unfortunately, I think the only test for it is actually testing it by using. If not by you personally, then by looking at family. But I don't think they can yet look at DNA and say "yup, you got the hook".


Your definitions are reasonable so lets go with them and continue.

A lot of it is a thin line. Part of the problem is we live in a society where you think everything is supposed to work perfect 100% of the time and any kind of discomfort is unacceptable. I have multiple physical problems that 150 year ago would have probably driven me to an early grave. My muscles are somehow not fully attached to bone or something which means my biceps and other development is very bad. I have nerve issues that make handwriting hard and terrible. It is life and I adapt and deal with it. But my mother is forever saying "see a doctor, get it fixed!"

It will drive me to the point of screaming that it is just not worth it. Even if it can be fixed it will cost tens of thousands of dollars I do not have, and even if insurance paid it then it would still be time off work and all kinds of trouble, and for what? As a young wannabe motorhead I learned what happens when you fool around with a car that is working to "improve" it, and to do so with my body well no way.

Back to the point, some people see their lives and wonder why it is not what they see on TV. They look for some way to improve it, and find it in a bottle of booze, pills, or both.

These people ruin things for legit people with pain. Buddy of mine in WNY has a neighbor who is a doctor specializing in pain. Wait list to see him is months long. He writes more scrips than 10 regular doctors. And because of this the feds raid him a few times a year. Sad that it comes to this.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
May 7th, 2015 at 4:16:12 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 39
Posts: 3396
Quote: petroglyph
I'm kinda glad to see the thread has went from discomfort and on to pain, I know nothing of comfort.

TP, speaking of diverticulitus. They told me when I woke up that that is the reason my colon burst [twice], it infected every organ in my gut cavity and I lost 28 lbs. in 8 days. Man that hurts.

I wasn't fat. That kind of infection eats the protein [muscle] away from the body. I hope you have it looked at, from inside if you haven't already.


Thanks.
Was hospitalized just once about 15 yrs ago due to the severe pain and infection.
Afterwards, had a colonoscopy done. Everything looked good.
After that incident, Occasional pain but nothing serious and it either goes away or see a DR and antibiotics makes it go away.
Last time I saw a Dr because moderate pain was not going away was about 5 yrs ago. Antibiotics did the trick.
Everything seems fine these days but I should do another colonoscopy.
I try to pay attention to my diet.
Diverticulitis is result of modern processed foods which results in a hard stool.
Body not designed to handle a hard stool. a healthy stool is soft.
They never see this in Africa and Asia with the large vegetable and fiber diet with little or no processed foods.
I and big on fiber such as wheat bread and try to eat a lot of vegatables.
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
May 7th, 2015 at 5:51:46 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 5129
Has anyone had those new colonoscopies where you swallow at tv camera the size of a sugar cube and they attach a recorder/receiver to you.
May 7th, 2015 at 7:45:21 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 75
Posts: 1686
Wow, Face, I don't know if I can post my back pain thing after reading your input. Well, OK, I know you will say I should, so I will. But I will say in advance, I am just 'being a big baby ' and should man up probably, so pay no attention to what I will write and let's admit you are the guy with the problem back here. Man, sorry to hear that.

And thanks for writing about it, some good stuff here, including about dependence and addiction. You seem to be on top of all that, but beware, we are all notoriously the worst judges - self examination when it comes to booze and drugs has a bad record. Something I am pondering as my back pain responds amazingly well to bourbon. Not-LOL. Dead serious and my drinking is now a double-down. My self-evaluation of that? No problem! What other conclusion does a drug/booze self evaluation ever lead to?
Mustard:You like Kipling, Miss Scarlet? Sure, I'll eat anything [from movie]
May 7th, 2015 at 7:50:53 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 5129
Quote: terapined

Diverticulitis is result of modern processed foods which results in a hard stool.
Body not designed to handle a hard stool. a healthy stool is soft. They never see this in Africa and Asia ...

Forgive me if I've confused you with a different poster, but it is my recollection you are half Asian so it must difficult to have a disease where steroids are recommended for your Asian half but not recommended for a Caucasian half.
May 7th, 2015 at 8:10:31 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 39
Posts: 3396
Quote: Fleastiff
Forgive me if I've confused you with a different poster, but it is my recollection you are half Asian so it must difficult to have a disease where steroids are recommended for your Asian half but not recommended for a Caucasian half.


Your recollection is correct.
My mother is from Taiwan and traces her family to China
My father is from upstate New York and traces his family back to the potato famine in Ireland.
As to any type of treatment , a Dr has never mentioned being biracial as a factor in determining a treatment.
As to steroids, had a shot once due to another physical problem.
Diverticulitis is not really a disease, its a result of diet lacking fiber to make the stool soft.
Diverticulitis is a modern man ailment. It was never seen prior to the processed foods era.
Its seen in Europe, Australia and North America.
Its rarely or never seen in Africa or Asia. This is simply due to low fiber and high fiber diets.
The body has a hard time pushing a hard stool through the system and therefore problems arise.
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
May 7th, 2015 at 9:35:12 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 15
Posts: 2289
Quote: terapined
Your recollection is correct.
My mother is from Taiwan and traces her family to China
My father is from upstate New York and traces his family back to the potato famine in Ireland.
As to any type of treatment , a Dr has never mentioned being biracial as a factor in determining a treatment.
As to steroids, had a shot once due to another physical problem.
Diverticulitis is not really a disease, its a result of diet lacking fiber to make the stool soft.
Diverticulitis is a modern man ailment. It was never seen prior to the processed foods era.
Its seen in Europe, Australia and North America.
Its rarely or never seen in Africa or Asia. This is simply due to low fiber and high fiber diets.
The body has a hard time pushing a hard stool through the system and therefore problems arise.


I have posited that had I eaten wheat bread as a kid if maybe my colon would not have burst?

That said, the scientists have modified wheat and the modern processing has degraded it's digestive benefits. They even make whole wheat white bread now.

I think a person would better off to avoid bread entirely, or wheat. Lately we have been eating some Ezekial bread and Quinoa bread or crackers. My wife got us some Quinoa noodles which were yummy.

You might want to visit the "Bristol stool scale"? It is interesting how much can be learned about the digestive system when stools are analyzed. It is gross to talk about for some people, it is something that youth should learn. Also about what frequency and duration teaches us about diet.

I don't know what the lifetime maximum for steroids is, but I probably passed it long ago with epidural injections.

If Face hasn't had an epidural, I highly recommend one [some] under fluoroscopy,. At the minimum there is some form of Novacaine in the tip of the needle and will bring relief if only temporary, maybe for a year?

I have come to believe that most pain [if not all] is caused by inflammation. I have had several prescription anti-inflammatories, my most recent is Naproxen. I really like how some of them work [thats what the epidural steroids do is reduce inflammation] but I can only take them for 3 days and then my skin starts falling off? Weird. When I looked at the chemical make-up trying to find the offender [as this has happened with different kinds] it appears to me that many have at least one ingredient in kind. The same with Motrin. That is Ibuprofen [somebody mentioned Alleve]. My doc says and I have taken up to 2400mgs per day.

Check your diet for inflammatory foods. My wife has Epstein Barr Virus, it is like a cross between Mono and Pneumonia, one symptom is pain in the large muscle groups. Not ho-hum pain. We all have it in us, just like cancer cells, or shingles if you had the mumps. The pain in my belief comes from inflammation.

AZ. IMO, stones consist of different materials. The most common one is Calcium. And I think it was Flea who said how is your hydration? I have read the calcium stones are caused by either a lack of calcium [many different kinds of calcium] or a raging lack of calcium? Not all stones show on scans.

The pain querie nutritionally? I think it depends on what pain you are trying to treat? On the stones, I believe prevention is the key. For tooth pain, I use Anbesol and whole cloves. Not perfect but helps. Nutritional healing works but is slow. The only pain reliever that worked for me when I had a stone was narcotics.

Well dammit, I'm off to go see the dentist, [cash]
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
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