Demographically Correct Air Traffic Controllers

Quote: Face

If I messed up once at the truck stop, someone got away with $100 in gas. Messed up in the casino, the corp. loses $1,000 to fines or AP. Mess up in the tower, a few hundred people die and tens of millions of $$$ are lost. Kind of funny, in a not-humorous-at-all way.

I remember one box man who re-assured a new stick chick by telling her its not brain surgery, if you screw up, no body dies.

I think its a matter of precision and not everyone agrees with me. When my instructor called us 'abeam the tower' I picked up the microphone and gave the correct N-number, annoying the instructor and probably the Controller.

When I was holding short the controller asked my intentions, I angered my instructor by replying "will continue to hold short, will later be doing closed traffic, but I'm sure it pleased the pilot of the twin engined plane that was filling my windshield to hear those magic words about "will continue to hold short".

there are lots of simulation software: simulated surgery, simulated this simulated that, and I just don't understand how a flight simulator can't throw "hard balls" at the students rather than just softballs. give the students a real world course and wash out the ones who for any reason just can't cut it.

anyone who graduates from any sort of collegiate traffic control program should be "reasonably capable and competent" or he should have been washed out somewhere around weeks one thru four. I just don't see a "training program" that does not train to some sort of reasonable minimum skills for "the real world". Its like the canadian controller who proposed marriage to his girlfriend when her airliner entered canaian airspace. He was on his knees at his post and was holding up a ring box while the radio traffic was piped to the cockpit and cabin of her arriving airliner.... but he insisted his supervisor take over his position first.

Its a matter of skill and experience but it should always be possible to weed out the utter dolts.

Quote: Fleastiff

there are lots of simulation software: simulated surgery, simulated this simulated that, and I just don't understand how a flight simulator can't throw "hard balls" at the students rather than just softballs. give the students a real world course and wash out the ones who for any reason just can't cut it.

It probably depends who is running the simulator and what they are told to do. What even I didn't think about is when pilots or in this case controllers go to the simulator they are supposed to have a bad day. Excepting for newbie training, the whole point is to get them used to disasters. My pilot brother had some kind of issue with a plane, brakes IIRC blew the line or something. He explained it so simple and I asked how you keep cool and know what to do, he said, "had it happen in the simulator a dozen times or more, that way it feels natural."

Quote: AZDuffman

It probably depends who is running the simulator and what they are told to do. What even I didn't think about is when pilots or in this case controllers go to the simulator they are supposed to have a bad day. Excepting for newbie training, the whole point is to get them used to disasters. My pilot brother had some kind of issue with a plane, brakes IIRC blew the line or something. He explained it so simple and I asked how you keep cool and know what to do, he said, "had it happen in the simulator a dozen times or more, that way it feels natural."

Yes, but Korean pilots get the same problems in the same sequence and know what the exam is, its not a surprise to them. Its like a drivers test in which you know exactly when and where a flat tire will take place. doesn't prove much at all.

a simulator should throw things such as similar call signs, numbers that are similar to assigned courses, a major wind change with a resultant change in runway visual range requirements so that no one is graduated and then finds out you can't steer approaching traffic onto the reverse course of the active runway.

Quote: Fleastiff

Yes, but Korean pilots get the same problems in the same sequence and know what the exam is, its not a surprise to them. Its like a drivers test in which you know exactly when and where a flat tire will take place. doesn't prove much at all.

a simulator should throw things such as similar call signs, numbers that are similar to assigned courses, a major wind change with a resultant change in runway visual range requirements so that no one is graduated and then finds out you can't steer approaching traffic onto the reverse course of the active runway.

This was something else we discussed. He said non-westerners are usually not very good pilots because of what you say and how they are both taught and brought up. For example, Asians are taught conformity and a rigid way to do most tasks. They can follow the manual, they can memorize the manual, but the moment the problem differs from the manual then the problems happen. An American pilot can make enough in 5 years in China to be set for life.

Quote: AZDuffman

An American pilot can make enough in 5 years in China to be set for life.

Not any longer. the chinese discovered low cost carriers who make the pilots buy their own rice and are trained to minimal standards but not too proficiency. two hours in a simulator in china but two weeks in a simulator every six months in the usa.

India is worse because all the exams and schooling are forged as are the log books.

some of the best flying is in botswana where newly minted pilots risk malaria and crime to get jobs with puddle jumper airlines that supply the wealthy hunting camps with food and customers. two to three years there and you can move onto emirate training.

qantas is weakening air newzealand by letting quantas passengers book a low cost regional airline in new zealand and then upgrade to international flights in return for points and cash auctions.

Quote: Fleastiff

Not any longer. the chinese discovered low cost carriers who make the pilots buy their own rice and are trained to minimal standards but not too proficiency. two hours in a simulator in china but two weeks in a simulator every six months in the usa.

Talking still right now. Just because they have low cost carriers does not mean they do not still have majors who like western pilots.

In Mexico, its "tomorrow" by which is meant not now.
In Indonesia, its "not on my shift" meaning 'no major deviations occur until I'm off duty'.

In China its:
Because Taiwan has been careless about public safety, there have been accidents such as a large scale fire, gas explosions, a falling of a steel girder and plane crashes. A casual and lethargic work attitude is the main reason why public safety incidents occur so often. (Editorial abstract -- June 29, 2015)