Science and God

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May 28th, 2015 at 8:06:45 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4926
Quote: Nareed

Arts and philosophy have their place and their uses, but divining the origins of the universe isn't one of them.


Answering the really big and important questions like: why are we here? Do we have a purpose or meaning? Is life valuable? These are exactly what philosophy, the arts, and theology are for. It is in trying to answer these questions that science is as useful as a solar powered flashlight.
May 28th, 2015 at 10:12:32 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 105
Posts: 10375
Quote: FrGamble
Answering the really big and important questions like: why are we here? Do we have a purpose or meaning? Is life valuable? These are exactly what philosophy, the arts, and theology are for. .


That's because they are questions that
have no definitive answer. Those questions
have a thousand answers, all of them
true. Science is not interested in how
many angels can dance on a pinhead.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 29th, 2015 at 4:28:54 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4926
Logic would remind you that they all can't be true.
May 29th, 2015 at 6:32:59 AM permalink
Mosca
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 16
Posts: 385
Quote: FrGamble
Logic would remind you that they all can't be true.


You're better off saying that you believe what you believe. Because science can't help with any of it. Consider it as a logic problem, you cannot use things inside a system to prove things outside that system. And once you get outside the system, your guess is as good as mine.
May 29th, 2015 at 7:12:36 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 306
Posts: 10241
Quote: FrGamble
These are exactly what philosophy, the arts, and theology are for.


Theology is a funny thing: a discipline without an object of study.

Listening to religious arguments about the trinity or how to achieve salvation, is like listening to Trekkies discuss the makeup of Starfleet Command or how to power a warp drive. It would be funny, if not for the blood spilled over such arcane points.

Philosophy has many objects of study. But it's not its place to unravel the mysteries of cosmology or physics, only to guide our understanding of them.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
May 29th, 2015 at 12:04:08 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 105
Posts: 10375
Quote: Nareed

Philosophy has many objects of study. But it's not its place to unravel the mysteries of cosmology or physics, only to guide our understanding of them.


Science abhors a mystery, religion thrives
on them. They can insert anything they
want and claim it to be true. Which is
exactly what the Church did for so many
hundreds of years. It eventually believed
it's own BS to such a degree, people like
Galileo were heretics who were forced
to keep their mouths shut or die for it.

Truth always outs, and one by one the
tenets of organized religion will fall to the
wayside. There are no real mysteries, only
solutions we haven't found yet.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 29th, 2015 at 2:35:44 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 306
Posts: 10241
Quote: FrGamble
Answering the really big and important questions like: why are we here?


The beginnings of that answer can be found in science.

See, we know the universe is made up of inanimate matter(*) and impersonal forces. That is, the components of the universe (stars, planets, clouds of dust and gas) are incapable of action. Yet within these places matter, being acted on by the same forces, can become organized into living organisms with a will of their own.

Now, we don't know how prevalent life is in the universe. We have very indirect indications that it may be widespread, but we just don't know.

If the universe is teeming with life, then it's a property of the universe (ie the universe produces life from time to time), much as earthquakes and volcanoes are a property of plate tectonics. If life is rare, or even unique to a few spots (and how can one possibly tell?), then the question becomes more interesting.

Either way, given all this results from the interactions between matter and forces, the answer is: because the universe is capable of producing life, and life is capable of evolving new traits.

(*) By "matter" I mean matter and energy, as they are equivalent.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
May 29th, 2015 at 2:55:01 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4926
Quote: Mosca
You're better off saying that you believe what you believe. Because science can't help with any of it. Consider it as a logic problem, you cannot use things inside a system to prove things outside that system. And once you get outside the system, your guess is as good as mine.


There is a limited field of knowledge that science has - namely the observable universe. Outside of this scientific system there is much more. However, the observable universe can help us make educated statements about this spiritual dimension that is not just a random guess. For example see Nareed's nice post above about what she learns from the observable universe and the conclusions she can draw. Even Bob uses observable evidence that he likes to twist around a bit and say it points to the spiritual idea of reincarnation. The natural world is part of a larger spiritual world and through what we observe and learn from science we can learn some things about things we cannot see.
May 29th, 2015 at 2:59:18 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4926
Quote: Nareed
Theology is a funny thing: a discipline without an object of study.


I appreciate your attempt to be cute, but even atheists could study theology as it is the study of God an how we perceive God. As you know this makes a big difference in the culture, politics, and society of a people. You can tell a lot about someone by their conception or lack thereof concerning God.
May 29th, 2015 at 3:47:02 PM permalink
Mosca
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 16
Posts: 385
Quote: FrGamble
There is a limited field of knowledge that science has - namely the observable universe. Outside of this scientific system there is much more. However, the observable universe can help us make educated statements about this spiritual dimension that is not just a random guess.


No, it can't.

Quote: FrGamble
For example see Nareed's nice post above about what she learns from the observable universe and the conclusions she can draw. Even Bob uses observable evidence that he likes to twist around a bit and say it points to the spiritual idea of reincarnation. The natural world is part of a larger spiritual world and through what we observe and learn from science we can learn some things about things we cannot see.


That is nonsense. It is why someone can posit The Flying Spaghetti Monster with as much evidence as any religion. You're better off just saying that you believe what you believe, because science isn't helping you. Put your feet in one camp, or put your feet in the other, because they pull in opposite directions. Just say that God is above it all and be done with justifying any of it scientifically.
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