Science and God
May 31st, 2015 at 1:28:32 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I have absolutely no objection to that excellent quote. You are mistaking my proposition that there is scientific evidence that points to a creator of our universe as if I am saying that faith depended on being proven by science. All I am saying is that it is more than reasonable to believe in a creator or God of our universe, much more reasonable than to not believe in God at all. You also have to remember that this God that exists is not necessarily the Triune God of Christianity. To discover this truth you need to encounter the living person of Christ and experience the Holy Spirit and believe what is revealed.
fides quarens intellectum This is NOT a new concept. It has always been a deeply held Catholic belief that "faith seeks understanding" and that science's study of the natural world and religion's reflections on divine revelation, both being created by the same God and both that seek after truth cannot be in real conflict. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
May 31st, 2015 at 2:00:25 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Reasonable to you because you have a religious agenda. I do not, so it's not reasonable at all to me. In fact, it's totally beyond reason. I look at the world and see the world, not a creation. I don't thank god for sunsets and mountains and rainbows, like my dorky relatives do. I just accept them are a part of nature, a part of a universe that has always been here.
Just keep tilting at those windmills, trying to prove a fantasy is real with science. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
June 1st, 2015 at 8:43:57 AM permalink | |
Mosca Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 22 Posts: 730 |
I think it is ironic when non-believers have to give a Catholic priest his best and most forceful argument. |
June 1st, 2015 at 8:46:37 AM permalink | |
Mosca Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 22 Posts: 730 |
"Reason" is from logic, not science. Logic starts with a system already in place. Science starts with observation of the world. The only way you can apply reason to science and arrive at a creator is by starting with the belief in a creator. |
June 1st, 2015 at 8:55:57 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Yes, exactly. Belief in a creator goes back to the very earliest civilizations. Very likely the belief precedes them. Old ideas die hard. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
June 1st, 2015 at 11:18:40 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
It always (and I mean alwayscomes back to this. Somebody thinks they see a creation, so they look for a creator till they find one. I always get the same visceral reaction from Christians on two subjects. When I say there is no sin, prove it. And you don't know the universe was 'created', it might have been here forever in one form or another. They get really upset because they want everybody to take these two concepts for granted, sin and creation, because they imply a god. All Christians are salesmen, they're selling god. Every salesman needs a foot in the door. If you believe none of what they're selling, you will indeed be a very hard nut to crack. Heck, FrG accused Nareed the other day of 'pretending' not to believe in god. FrG really doesn't see that god isn't obvious at all, unless you're halfway sold on it to start with. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
June 1st, 2015 at 4:02:55 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Reason from logic tells us that things that begin to exist have a creator. Science points to the universe having a beginning. Therefore it seems pretty clear that it is a reasonable suggestion to say that the universe has a creator. I'm not starting with a belief in a creator. I'm starting with logical truths we arrive at using our reason and applying them to the available scientific evidence. I don't see what the problem is. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
June 1st, 2015 at 4:49:45 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Not so. Everything within the universe has a beginning, or a cause, and was formed or came into being. the Sun, for instance, was formed out of a cloud of hydrogen, plus dust and other gasses. We've seen similar stellar formation processes elsewhere and at various stages. We have NOT seen any evidence at all of a sentient being directing, manipulating or otherwise influencing how stars form. The logical conclusion which follows from this is that stars form spontaneously.
Read what I wrote above this quote. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
June 1st, 2015 at 4:55:41 PM permalink | |
Mosca Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 22 Posts: 730 |
You might not think that you are, but you are. Logic starts with postulates. The very first thing you are doing is postulating a creator. |
June 1st, 2015 at 5:00:41 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
But you have no idea if the universe even had a beginning. If there was a big bang, you don't even know if it was the only one. One theory is there are an infinite number of them and infinite universes. You keep trying to take 6000 year old ideas and make them have meaning today, when they are completely outdated. You wouldn't build a car with 1910 technology, why maintain a religion with outdated logic. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |