States' Rights

Decided to bring this over here. (if someone want's to bring it up over there, fine with me, but I try not to start off topic threads there not about gambling or vegas)

One of my commentaries about state's rights is if they were too go too far.

The more a state can individualize in the extreme, the more it potentially moves into a renegade status. Would this happen, maybe not, but maybe so.

For instance, a state could move completely left or right -- I mean, FAR FAR left or right, not just a few things here and there.

I think more extremes would actually drive the population of like people to really reside in a particular states. Why is this a bad thing?

Well, because, unless we want to split the union, a state could become so extreme in one respect we might have succession problems with states that are so different from one another, that it's like little countries of Europe, so diverse as to be unable to work together anymore.

I don't see breaking up the US as a plus. On the other hand, too much federal control can also have the same effect. I'm not sure what the limit of that is either, but people like to complain about it, so most are keeping their eye on it anyway,

So while people may bitch about the tight leash of the Feds, I do see a danger if the leash becomes too lax as well.

I would rather complain about a few issues in my state, than read about what state wants to become independent because it's become so radicalized left or right, or something else, perhaps religious purity even?

Quote: rxwine

For instance, a state could move completely left or right -- I mean, FAR FAR left or right, not just a few things here and there.

We have this, it is called "California."

I am for states rights as they were pre-Civil War. Now, that does not mean I am for slavery, before someone brings it up. But the Feds are simply out of control. Why should someone in Washington be deciding how a state teaches math and what they serve for lunch? Why should the Feds be setting DUI limits? DUI is a state, not federal, crime. Feds should have zero say.

As to "breaking up the USA?" I think it is getting to be inevitable. If CA wanted to leave I would be the first to attend the divorce party. Have a "velvet divorce" like the Checz and Slovaks did in the 1990s. Stay friends, but you go your way and we will go ours. CA seems crazy about wanting open borders, a welfare state, and regulating whatever moves. If they left the USA, such behavior would not spread to the rest of the republic nearly as fast.

If I was in TX, I would vote to leave in a minute. TX has enough energy, in on its own power grid, and generally gets crapped on by DC. Same deal. Trade and be friends, but quit telling me what we are having for dinner. We each eat alone.

Like it or not, the USA is becoming balkanized. Geographically and socially. IMHO what will tear things apart is when, not if, the world stops using the USD as the reserve and actually wants paid with something with real value. When that happens, the handouts have to end. When that happens, violence and disorder will follow in very short order. Think it can't happen? In 1979 the USSR seemed unstoppable. 13 years later it was gone.

Not like I expected you to agree. Heh.

I think back when the Civil War occurred there was a much greater perception of "cut off ness" by the states. People didn't travel everywhere, and when they did it wasn't as often or easily. There was even more of a feeling of stranger's meddling from a central government far away. I think that helped make it ripe as well.

I do not know if yours is the road we are headed for. I do not rule out anything possible though.

Quote: rxwine

I do not know if yours is the road we are headed for. I do not rule out anything possible though.

I am just looking at history, looking at trends, and drawing a few rational conclusions. Actually I predict not only the collapse of the USA, but even more major problems for the world. I believe humanity will be bye-bye by the year 3000. If not a total extinction, will be a population fall of 90% from today's level.

Alaska is one of the states that would do better IMO if it were allowed to secede.

This guy had a huge following but was found dead in a gravel pit outside Fairbanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Vogler

I thought Ace of Spades description of his problem with the HOA, as pretty much the example that a nirvana of a state small enough to be no problem is probably a myth. Then you got Rudeboi's solution.

Hermit, is only solution, I guess.

The problems isn't so much states rights, but rather both parties using government power, at all levels, to impose their ideological preferences on everyone else.

And what makes the GOP a bit worse than the Democrats, is that they constantly lie about being in favor of limiting the power of government. They never hesitate to increase the power of government, at all levels, if it fits with their agenda. Thus the draconian immigration laws, which they want to augment with a bigger, worse version of the Berlin Wall. The restrictions on abortion. The endorsement of state executions, no matter how cruel and unusual or how flawed. The desire to keep all drugs illegal (except alcohol and tobacco) along with harsh penalties for dealers and users. And more.

The Democrats aren't any better, but at least they're less hypocritical.

http://www.historywiz.com/georgia.htm

"Georgia was different from the other twelve colonies. It received money from Parliament to get it started, and alone of the 12 colonies, prohibited slavery and the import of alcohol. It is generally believed that lawyers were not allowed in the colony, but no legislation has been found to prove it. The settlers had no control of their own government - it was entirely ruled by the trustees."

Quote: rxwine

Hermit, is only solution, I guess.

Pretty much. It's been working for me =)

I don't really know where what money comes from and can't comment on feasibility from a pure sustainability aspect. But I did have one thought pop up immediately.

Say California secedes and then a whopping 9.0 gives San Fran the Etch-a-Sketch treatment. Who's gonna pay to rebuild it? Surely one independent state couldn't afford such a thing?

Quote: petroglyph

http://www.historywiz.com/georgia.htm

"Georgia was different from the other twelve colonies. It received money from Parliament to get it started, and alone of the 12 colonies, prohibited slavery and the import of alcohol. It is generally believed that lawyers were not allowed in the colony, but no legislation has been found to prove it. The settlers had no control of their own government - it was entirely ruled by the trustees."

Georgia was a prison colony so that makes sense.

Quote: Face

Say California secedes and then a whopping 9.0 gives San Fran the Etch-a-Sketch treatment. Who's gonna pay to rebuild it? Surely one independent state couldn't afford such a thing?

Could go the same way as happens now, small country gets aid from various international money-printing institutions. In a perfect world the free states might see that they cannot print money like before and set up rainy day funds. Well, yeah, right. But as long as we are imaging a better world.........