Greece has run out of OPM

Quote: Wizard

If we lose a base in Greece I won't lose any sleep over it. To be honest, I think I would appreciate any financial savings to the government.

They might get rid of a base for political reasons, but bases are a source of money for the local population. They shop locally and otherwise support the community around them.

Quote: rxwine

They might get rid of a base for political reasons, but bases are a source of money for the local population. They shop locally and otherwise support the community around them.

I don't really care. There are consequences for living beyond your means. If Russia bails out Greece and kicks us out, then let them support the local economy. Just don't ask me to help.

In other news, I moved posts relating to how to spell Pharaoh and other non-related topics to http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/1336/0/.

Quote: Nareed

Sure. But what are you going to do tomorrow night, Brain?

Probably the same thing he does every night?

Quote: Wizard

Russia had a chance to bail out Cyprus, but I guess the cost was too great so they walked. If they want to come to the aid of Greece, go ahead. If I lived in Russia, I would want no part Greece's problems.

I'm not sure Russia has the readies to bail out Greece either.

I am surprised the UK's rate is at 90%.... the Tories have been running austerity measures for five years. Seems they haven't actually solved any problems.

Quote: TheCesspit

I am surprised the UK's rate is at 90%....

So was I. Higher than Spain, where you keep hearing is one of the next dominoes to fall. I wonder how they calculate the debt. In my opinion they should subtract any savings and not count money the country owes to itself, for example much of our debt we owe to ourselves in the form of the Social Security trust funds. For the same reason, I would also say the trust funds don't really exist.

Quote: TheCesspit

I'm not sure Russia has the readies to bail out Greece either.

Russia has printing presses so they can print as many rubles as required. Germany and the rest of Europe that own the Greek debt would accept them because they depend on Russian oil and gas would get to spend them on energy needs to recoup their loans. There goes the embargo and Russia gets the Ukraine as an extra prize. Putin will be even more popular at home than he already is if he was to try pull this off.

Quote: kenarman

Russia has printing presses so they can print as many rubles as required.

Russia already has leverage over Europe with its oil. I don't know that bailing out Greece would be worth the additional bargaining chips. Then again, this is way out of my area.

If I were in Greece I think I would default on all foreign debt, voluntarily leave the Euro, and let the US, Russia, and China get into a bidding war for bases and friendly relations to help jump start a new beginning.

That is certainly one on the options. Probably would survive with just Greece defaulting but if they come out of it with no pain why would any country pay off it's debt just have a referendum and stick everyone that actually works for a living.

Quote: kenarman

That is certainly one on the options. Probably would survive with just Greece defaulting but if they come out of it with no pain why would any country pay off it's debt just have a referendum and stick everyone that actually works for a living.

That is the continuing crux of the problem. What is needed is a debt jubilee. Those that should take the "haircut" are those that made the loans. It wasn't the taxpayers that stood to make a profit if Greece [or anyone] else made the payments until maturity. It shouldn't be taxpayers who have to make the banks whole on their poor choice to lend insolvent borrowers the money to continue.

No different really than sub prime house or auto loans here in country. It is also the same solution provided to the creditors. Let the taxpayers make the payments when the loans go bad, let the bankers reap the rewards when the loans go "good".

The "money" that is missing never existed in the first place, it was loaned into existence, that is what is wrong with fiat currency.

That is a long way from capitalism.

Isn't it a biblical thing to have a debt jubilee (forgiveness) every seven years?

The Greeks benefited in the good years of over-spending and under-taxing so they should feel some pain when the chickens come home to roost.

I heard the Greek president saying the "no" vote gave him more bargaining power with his creditors. What would happen if he told Germany and whoever else they own money to that they have two choices:

1. Greece will pay 50 cents on the dollar of its debt, remain on the Euro, and control its own affairs.
2. Greece will entirely default.

Seems to me that door #1 would be the better option for northern Europe.