In decline.

Earlier I tried to post some predictions in another area, but the board was acting funny and would not load.

I'll just post one here: In a century or two, Christianity in particular and religion in general, will have no more influence in public policy in the West than sports. Less, even, as no government will splurge billions for a cathedral to promote the local economy, as they would, and in fact do, for sports stadiums of many kinds.

The TV was showing Schindler's List this weekend, along with some Auschwitz documentaries.

U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, released the following statement in recognition of Tisha B’Av:
“To all those observing the mourning of Tisha B’Av, I wish you a time of meaningful reflection on the destruction of the holy Temples and the calamities that befell our Jewish brothers on this day. As our Jewish friends hope for the rebuilding of the Temple speedily in our days, I share their joy in the establishment of a Jewish State after 2,000 years of exile. Especially today, with stakes so high, we can never allow there to be a threat to Israel’s destruction. We must furiously fight the Iran deal that puts Israel in jeopardy so that we may never again mourn the destruction of the Jewish State.”

According to the Mishnah (Taanit 4:6), five specific events occurred on the ninth of Av that warrant fasting:

1) The twelve spies sent by Moses to observe the land of Canaan returned from their mission. Only two of the spies, Joshua and Caleb, brought a positive report, while the others spoke disparagingly about the land. The majority report caused the Children of Israel to cry, panic and despair of ever entering the "Promised Land". For this, they were punished by God that their generation would not enter the land. Because of the Israelites' lack of faith, God decreed that for all generations this date would become one of crying and misfortune for their descendants. (See Numbers 13; Numbers 14).
2) The First Temple built by King Solomon and the Kingdom of Judah was destroyed by the Babylonians led by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE (Anno Mundi [AM] 3175) after a two-year siege and the Judaeans were sent into the Babylonian exile. According to the Talmud in tractate Ta'anit, the destruction of the First Temple began on the Ninth of Av and the Temple continued to burn throughout the Tenth of Av.
3) The Second Temple built by Ezra and Nehemiah was destroyed by the Romans in August 70 CE (AM 3830), scattering the people of Judea and commencing the Jewish exile from the Holy Land.
4) The Romans crushed Bar Kokhba's revolt and destroyed the city of Betar, killing over 500,000 Jewish civilians (approximately 580,000) on July 8, 135 CE (Av 9, AM 3892).
5) Following the Bar Kokhba revolt, Roman commander Turnus Rufus plowed the site of the Temple and the surrounding area, in 135 CE.

Seven other events of significance that happened on this date.

1) The First Crusade officially commenced on August 15, 1096 (Av 24, AM 4856), killing 10,000 Jews in its first month and destroying Jewish communities in France and the Rhineland. 1.2 million Jews were killed by this crusade that started on the 9th of Av.
2) The Jews were expelled from England on July 18, 1290 (Av 9, AM 5050).
3) The Jews were expelled from France on July 22, 1306 (Av 10, AM 5066).
4) The Jews were expelled from Spain on July 31, 1492 (Av 7, AM 5252).
5) Germany entered World War I on August 1–2, 1914 (Av 9-10, AM 5674), which caused massive upheaval in European Jewry and whose aftermath led to the Holocaust.
6) On August 2, 1941 (Av 9, AM 5701), SS commander Heinrich Himmler formally received approval from the Nazi Party for "The Final Solution." As a result, the Holocaust began during which almost one third of the world's Jewish population perished.
7) On July 23, 1942 (Av 9, AM 5702), began the mass deportation of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto, en route to Treblinka.

Quote: Pacomartin

1) The First Crusade officially commenced on August 15, 1096 (Av 24, AM 4856), killing 10,000 Jews in its first month and destroying Jewish communities in France and the Rhineland. 1.2 million Jews were killed by this crusade that started on the 9th of Av.
.

All in the name of Jesus. Praise his name. I love
those days when the Church wasn't pretending
to be something else other than a power crazed
ruthless monopoly.

I'm a little staggered at the numbers that usually reliable Paco is throwing around. I would like to see the source used to get your information about the First Crusade? Most historians put the total number of casualties of the nine crusades combined between 100,000 and 200,000, but it is hard to get an exact number. 1.2 million is way, way, off the mark.

Quote: FrGamble

but it is hard to get an exact number. 1.2 million is way, way, off the mark.

You mean the Church is admitting it
really happened? I thought it's line
was it's a myth, like the witch burnings
and the Inquisitions.

Of course it really happened and it has been repented of. The myth is the things and stories that have grown up around the crusades, inquisitions, and witch hunts. Things like the iron maiden and millions and millions of deaths are not grounded in historical fact, they are often anti-Catholic propaganda.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm a little staggered at the numbers that usually reliable Paco is throwing around. I would like to see the source used to get your information about the First Crusade? Most historians put the total number of casualties of the nine crusades combined between 100,000 and 200,000, but it is hard to get an exact number. 1.2 million is way, way, off the mark.

Source: The Truth About "The Harbinger" Jose Bernal page 87

I must admit that I didn't investigate the casualty figure, as it was incidental to the purpose of my post.

The commemoration of this particular day was enshrined in the Torah near the end of the 2nd century, but it has passed through history as a day that bad things happened to the Jewish people. In the last month it has been brought up as significant in the Iran treaty. Many politicians see the Iran treaty as only ending badly for Israel.

I was only citing it as a counter-example to Nareed's argument that religion is having a diminished impact on politics.

Quote: U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, released the following statement in recognition of Tisha B’Av:

“To all those observing the mourning of Tisha B’Av, I wish you a time of meaningful reflection on the destruction of the holy Temples and the calamities that befell our Jewish brothers on this day. As our Jewish friends hope for the rebuilding of the Temple speedily in our days, I share their joy in the establishment of a Jewish State after 2,000 years of exile. Especially today, with stakes so high, we can never allow there to be a threat to Israel’s destruction. We must furiously fight the Iran deal that puts Israel in jeopardy so that we may never again mourn the destruction of the Jewish State.”

Ted Cruz woos Orthodox Jews
He boosts fundraising while stressing traditional values and support for Israel.

Thanks for clarifying Paco and I admit I wasn't careful in reading your post and getting your point. My eye seems to always jump right to the words crusades or inquisition whenever I see them. Peace!

'Over the course of 200 years, historians now estimate, some 2 million Europeans died in the Middle East crusades..' Encyclopædia Britannica

There are lots more sources. The Crusades have been
extensively researched in the 21st century. They are
of particular interest to Islam. They are giving the
Crusades as one of their major reasons for Jihad, that
the Christians in the West tried to wipe them off
the map. Just another gift from the Church that we
have to live with today.

I like what this guy has done here. He says he's
done immaculate research on the numbers
and I believe him. He got many sources for
each event and looked at them as a whole.
Must have taken him forever. The Crusades
are near the bottom. 1-3 million killed.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/08/the-death-toll-comparison-breakdown.html