Defund Planned Parenthood

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August 24th, 2015 at 2:18:16 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Good post, rx, and an opinion I pretty much hold myself.

I find it interesting that one side makes weird statements, usually something about "The person who would've cured cancer got aborted" or other such malarkey to make you think about it. You do realize that the clump of cells you cry for also could've been the next Pol Pot, right? Both statements are stupid. In reality, and in my opinion, that clump isn't like the acorn, it is the acorn. It could've withered and died, or it could've turned into a majestic being. It could've spawned something new and great, or it could've been the ruination of the region. But either way it's now gone, there's a billion others to take its place, and life goes on.

I truly feel that way, and the thought or statement that "It could've been you" holds no sway whatsoever. Why would it? If I was aborted, there is no possible way I could've cared. I spent 99.99999999875% of existence not existing. I got maybe 60-70 years of walking around and chatting with you fine folks, and then I'll be gone again forever. Whether I existed or not hardly makes a difference.

That is not-not-not to say I'm for abortion. As much as I spoke truth in the first two paragraphs, I also say it here when I state that I find them... displeasing, at best. And those who use it as birth control I find downright disturbing. But in no way could I ever justify taking away the ability to have one. You can point out all the chances a person had from having sex to using protection and all the others, and I agree. But the thought of the type of person who makes bad decisions, then forcing them to bear a child... that's f#$%ed up to me.

And I hate to point it out (no I don't =p) that this issue is the exact same m#$%#$f#$%^#$ thing as guns and drugs and all the rest. He we sit, like mental defectives, trying to affect a change in a situation by tackling the result. Seriously! How does no one seem to realize this yet?! If you burn a f#$%ing cake, you don't deal with the burnt cake! You go way up the timeline and fix what burned it in the first GD place! Bad instructions? Faulty thermostat? Whatever it is, fix the cause, and the result ceases to be. But no, just make a law, that'll fix it. At least there's Obamacare to tend to all the resulting coat hanger injuries.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
August 24th, 2015 at 2:55:20 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: AZDuffman
Yes, I can and will complain about both.
I figured you might.

To be clear, I think abortion is horrible, and from what I understand of partial birth abortion. That is killing, plain and simple, it is an arrogant untruth to call that aborting.

There are plenty of problems that go with unwanted babies, one being poverty and drug/alcohol abuse and ignorant mothers who don't attend their health during pregnancy. We all are aware of FAS babies and meth addicted, brain damaged babies that will suffer for life from before they are born. Many if not most will be ward's of the state.

How many orphanages are there with unwanted children, that will live their entire childhood in institutions without nurturing? They aren't going to be adopted by anyone. I believe that once a baby is born, yes they are a person and deserve human rights, as do we all. I don't agree that when an egg is fertilized it is then a viable human.

We all draw our own moral boundaries. There can't be anything much sadder then going into a neo natal unit and witnessing addicted and suffering for life, babies.

There is only so much excess capital to go around, and in this country along with the debt you mentioned, 22 & 18 trillion, throw in another 100 trillion of unfunded liabilities [SS and Medicare] . Tough choices need to be made, they will be either on purpose or during crisis.

Promises will either be broken to our seniors [they will] or to the unborn [they will], or the rest [they will]. With what excess capital that really doesn't exist, but we pretend does, we can either aid those that earned it, or those that will most likely be a burden.

Morally sure, the burden should rest on those that have created the child. But that isn't how it works. There is to much poverty now, to many unemployed now, to much spent on wars of all kinds. I think you force those unwanted and un-affordable babies into the world, you are condemning them to most likely a life of suffering. They will probably end up being someones cannon fodder. Historically that is what happens when a government that cares only for itself, does with excess people. So either mercifully terminate them before all the rearing is put into them or on the field of battle, serving the bankers. There isn't really another way "for it to go", unless we have a plague or something?

I don't believe in infinite growth on a finite planet, but that belief is how we have "afforded" entitlements, thus far. You are already aware the currency is collapsing, what logical direction is more babies going to go?
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
August 24th, 2015 at 3:15:56 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Mosca
You would rather create divisiveness in the name of Christ than unity in the name of peace. You and your ilk would prefer a religious war over a secular peace.


Would you mind if I steal these sentences? They're sheer brilliance.

It's hard to argue something as personal and sensitive as abortion with people who are against it. they tend to have very concrete minds about the subject: hard and permanently set. It's not a matter of persuading them, but simply to get them to see past a simplistic "thou shalt not," handed down by their god without reason or explanation.

Their arguments, therefore, tend to be heavily emotional, with little to no substance, and often no regard at all for the feelings, well-being or health of the women most intimately involved with the subject.

So don't get too upset with them.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
August 24th, 2015 at 6:17:10 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: petroglyph


I don't believe in infinite growth on a finite planet, but that belief is how we have "afforded" entitlements, thus far. You are already aware the currency is collapsing, what logical direction is more babies going to go?


Soon, governments may ban abortion to avoid population collapse. The population brakes are already being slammed. Russia has already started to experience this.

Of course, you know I believe the entire thing is collapsing. IMHO an increasing abortion rate is a symptom, not a cause of, a sickly society. When we have one side that cannot even agree that partial-birth abortion is a problem, well, we have big problems.
The President is a fink.
August 24th, 2015 at 6:22:22 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: Mosca

You would rather create divisiveness in the name of Christ than unity in the name of peace. You and your ilk would prefer a religious war over a secular peace.


I have to agree. Mosca nailed it.

On a lighter side.
The stock market was a little shaky today.
Ol Pat Robertson weighed in.
The market is crashing because of Planned Parenthood and abortion according to ol Pat Robertson
Nothing to do with China, its God punishing America.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pat-robertson-planned-parenthood_55db8a15e4b08cd3359cfd3b?kvcommref=mostpopular

On the flip side, maybe the big man upstairs is upset that Trump is Leading instead of Cruz or Huck so he made the market go down.
Makes more sense since Trump is about money.
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
August 24th, 2015 at 8:52:22 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Face
And Nobel founded a chemical whose use has resulted in the deaths of untold millions.

Even Hitler got some things right. Animal conservation and the humane harvesting thereof was largely pioneered by the Nazis. Modern rockets, whose use gave us such great things as knowledge of the stars, GPS, and TV, came from the Nazis. Modern hypothermic treatments came by way of truly horrendous Nazi experiments. Is the wonder of those treatments rendered null and void simply due to how they were discovered, or by whom?


No you misunderstand me, it is not just that Sanger was a racist it is that she founded Planned Parenthood to further her racist ideas, that and free love as she left her husband and kids to "explore" Europe. So if Hitler got some things right, one of those things was not his idea to exterminate the Jewish people. Maybe Sanger got some things right, but one of those things was not to exterminate poor, disabled, or minority people.

I'm surprised that usually I am the one throwing out bad arguments or sloppy philosophy. However this analogy to an acorn is really quite ridiculous. In the history of history a human embryo, fetus, fertilized egg, whatever you want to call it has never become anything other than a human being. The squashing of an acorn is no big deal because an oak tree isn't a huge deal, even cutting one down in its prime is bad, but it is not equivalent to cutting down a man in his prime. I don't cry over squishing an acorn, not because I don't think some potential oak tree is now not possible, but because a new oak tree really isn't worth crying over. Let me ask if that acorn was going to potentially become a money tree would you squish it? Would that be any worse than cutting down a money tree already growing in your backyard?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
August 24th, 2015 at 9:00:55 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Face

And I hate to point it out (no I don't =p) that this issue is the exact same m#$%#$f#$%^#$ thing as guns and drugs and all the rest. He we sit, like mental defectives, trying to affect a change in a situation by tackling the result. Seriously! How does no one seem to realize this yet?! If you burn a f#$%ing cake, you don't deal with the burnt cake! You go way up the timeline and fix what burned it in the first GD place! Bad instructions? Faulty thermostat? Whatever it is, fix the cause, and the result ceases to be. But no, just make a law, that'll fix it. At least there's Obamacare to tend to all the resulting coat hanger injuries.


Now this is good stuff. I totally agree that the real problem is not abortion, that is the unfortunate fruit of a bigger problem further up the line. If it wasn't for the FACT that a human life was involved it would be wise to ignore the abortion issue and start a good conversation and discussion about lust, the abuse and objectification of women, the lie of safe-sex, and the misuse and misunderstanding of what sex is and what it is for. However, no body I think really wants to talk about these bigger issues because our society is built on this stuff. To become more charitable and respectful to women is not on the agenda, so instead we protect a women's right to choose to kill her unborn baby and at the same time continue to bail out men who can use and abuse women and send them to the abortion mill. The cake is burnt and the ingredients are screwed up, we need to go back and read the instructions.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
August 24th, 2015 at 9:06:16 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: terapined
I have to agree. Mosca nailed it.



Why would you say this? He has only proved that reasonable people on the wrong side of history on this issue cannot rationally discuss it. Look I am all for holding a position that can't be proved by science, but for the life of me I can't understand why anyone would want to hold an illogical and incorrect position that can be proven by science.

I know there are strong emotions behind this issue and maybe some personal experiences. If you remember this thread started about defunding Planned Parenthood and sending the money to other places that can actually do good with it. I was not advocating for a ban on abortion or making it illegal, I knew that wouldn't get far and devolve into what we have here. "I am for peace, but when they speak they are for fighting." (Psalm 120)
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
August 24th, 2015 at 10:03:19 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18556
Quote: FrGamble
I don't cry over squishing an acorn, not because I don't think some potential oak tree is now not possible, but because a new oak tree really isn't worth crying over.


When you read of Jesus talking about sheep and a flock do you not understand he doesn't actually mean information for sheep and how people feel about sheep?

Sheesh!
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
August 24th, 2015 at 10:12:13 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18556
Quote: FrGamble
Let me ask if that acorn was going to potentially become a money tree would you squish it? Would that be any worse than cutting down a money tree already growing in your backyard?


Actually there is a reason I didn't use something like an acorn growing into a money tree. For one thing, it creates a different expectation than what living things do. And it's not something that can actually happen.

What if the acorn grew into a pot of gold. Diamonds. Sure, that makes a difference. It could turn into Godzilla and squash the city.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
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