Defund Planned Parenthood

September 4th, 2015 at 2:46:49 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
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Quote: Nareed
Are any of the myriad clueless people demanding the defunding of Planned Parenthood aware that it receives not one penny of funding for abortions?


That's just shuffling around the paperwork.
That's like saying the Nazi's never used a
dime of the money they stole from the Jews,
to persecute the Jews. It's just creative
bookkeeping.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
September 4th, 2015 at 3:03:45 PM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: Evenbob
That's just shuffling around the paperwork.


You know this how?
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
September 5th, 2015 at 12:12:20 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Wizard
You know this how?


Social Security is one of my incomes. I have
11 cats and a dog. None of the SS money
goes to feeding these animals. It says so
in my bookkeeping.

You can make bookkeeping say anything you
want it to say because money is fluid. I don't
have to spend any of the SS money on cat
food if I use separate accounts. But obviously
all the income gets thrown into one big pot,
so who knows what goes where.

With creative bookkeeping, PP can make sure
no gov't money goes to abortion on paper,
but in reality it's all one big pot. Money is
money.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
September 5th, 2015 at 2:52:09 AM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: Evenbob
With creative bookkeeping, PP can make sure
no gov't money goes to abortion on paper,
but in reality it's all one big pot. Money is
money.


Show me how any dollar of government money goes to pay for an abortion, regardless of what agencies the dollar travels through.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
September 5th, 2015 at 5:06:55 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Wizard
Show me how any dollar of government money goes to pay for an abortion, regardless of what agencies the dollar travels through.


Ask and ye shall receive.

Note that the site is a pro-abortion site, not some bunch of right wingnuts.
The President is a fink.
September 5th, 2015 at 6:42:51 AM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: AZDuffman
Ask and ye shall receive.

Note that the site is a pro-abortion site, not some bunch of right wingnuts.


Okay, thank you. Always good to see a point argued with evidence. I'll concede that your site argues that 15 STATES provide funding for abortion. That I didn't know.

However, I claim that no federal money is spent on abortion. I'll also claim that Planned Parenthood not only doesn't do abortions but doesn't provide financial assistance for them either. This is not my area of expertise, so invite correction if I'm wrong, but this is my understanding.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
September 5th, 2015 at 7:42:11 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
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Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Ask and ye shall receive.

Note that the site is a pro-abortion site, not some bunch of right wingnuts.


Okay, thank you. Always good to see a point argued with evidence. I'll concede that your site argues that 15 STATES provide funding for abortion. That I didn't know.

However, I claim that no federal money is spent on abortion. I'll also claim that Planned Parenthood not only doesn't do abortions but doesn't provide financial assistance for them either. This is not my area of expertise, so invite correction if I'm wrong, but this is my understanding.


Lets take it step by step.

First, does Federal money go to abortions? The aforesaid quote states that 15 states pay for abortion via Medicaid. Medicaid is a mixture of Federal and State monies. Similar to dropping your 401(k) into your IRA, once monies are mixed you cannot unmix them. Perhaps we can agree to say that the abortions in these 15 states are at least *partiallly* federally funded.

Does PP do abortions?

Planned Parenthood has the fees for abortions on their website.

[Does Planned Parenthood provide financial assistance for abortions?

From their own website:


Quote:
PWP is here for you whether you have insurance or not. We offer a variety of low and no-cost programs to ensure you are able to receive the health care you deserve.

No-Cost Programs

Title X program

PPWP provides free services for teens ages 17 and under. For women and men over age 17, fees for services are based on your household income and may be free.


[note: PPWPA is "Western PA" which is the local site Google brings up for me]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the least they show you how to get a free abortion, at worst they are paying directly.


This is all from their website, except the part about how Medicaid is funded.
The President is a fink.
September 5th, 2015 at 9:12:39 AM permalink
Wizard
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It is my understanding that many states sweeten Medicaid by paying more with state funds or paying for services that the federal government does not. That is what I assume these 15 states are doing -- funding abortions because the federal government does not. I am not claiming this as an absolute fact, but this is my understanding. That those 15 states are generally blue states I think argues my point.

The way I would interpret that PP quotation from the web site is that they may refer people to other organizations that may pay for the abortion. That is not the same as paying for it themselves. Furthermore, they don't specify what services they may do this for, at least in your quote. PP does a lot than just unwanted pregnancy counseling.

I don't think the burden of the evidence should be on me as I'm challenging EB's statement that PP does pay for abortions and hides the fact with accounting tricks. This is what I would like to see substantiated with evidence and not EB's pet food budget.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
September 5th, 2015 at 9:39:11 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Wizard
It is my understanding that many states sweeten Medicaid by paying more with state funds or paying for services that the federal government does not. That is what I assume these 15 states are doing -- funding abortions because the federal government does not. I am not claiming this as an absolute fact, but this is my understanding. That those 15 states are generally blue states I think argues my point.


But again, once the funds are mixed it is all in one pot.

Quote:
The way I would interpret that PP quotation from the web site is that they may refer people to other organizations that may pay for the abortion. That is not the same as paying for it themselves. Furthermore, they don't specify what services they may do this for, at least in your quote. PP does a lot than just unwanted pregnancy counseling.


Lets try this another way. Have you ever gone to a car dealer where they say "we will get you financed?" Unless you are at a BHPH lot, the dealer does not do the financing. But the dealer has relationships with a number of banks who do. As the customer, you really only care about the rate and term. PP still does the abortion, they just get a third party to pay the bill. Check the site, the funds do pay for abortions, and the "free" abortions are weighed towards minor girls.

Quote:
I don't think the burden of the evidence should be on me as I'm challenging EB's statement that PP does pay for abortions and hides the fact with accounting tricks. This is what I would like to see substantiated with evidence and not EB's pet food budget.


I have done my part. Clearly, PP gets someone else to sign the checks. I will leave it to y'all to decide if what I provided is not paying vs. an accounting trick. Actually I had not researched it much before this thread. But after research, I am convinced that if a 17 year old walks in the door she will be able to get an abortion and no fee if she pushes the issue if she is in a 35/state. If she is in a 15/state my gut tells me PP has someone on staff who can get the state to pay via Medicaid. Getting such payments is such big business in all health care it is unreasonable to think PP would not do so.
The President is a fink.
September 5th, 2015 at 11:04:54 AM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: AZDuffman
But again, once the funds are mixed it is all in one pot.


No. Somebody else is still paying for it. Maybe the woman with the unwanted pregnancy doesn't care who is footing the bill, but I'm sure plenty of people don't want their federal tax dollars going towards abortions and those people can sleep well at night that it isn't happening because somebody else is footing the bill, not Uncle Sam.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber