The Golden Age of Air Travel?

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October 23rd, 2015 at 6:29:43 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 313
Posts: 10666
Quote: boymimbo
Nareed, try FlyerTalk.


I will. Thanks!
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
October 23rd, 2015 at 6:43:26 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 313
Posts: 10666
Quote: terapined
Some business travelers care about price.


At our company things are relatively simple, and highly inefficient. But t comes down to: take Interjet.

If that's not feasible, we're allowed to book on Aeromexico in economy. Managers at the VP level can fly business, but neither regularly nor predictably (I know because I handle my boss's plane travel requests). 99% of all travel is domestic, BTW, and about 90% of that involves under 2 hours flight time. As far as I know, once the company has paid, if one wants to spend one's money on an upgrade that's no longer the company's business.


Quote:
Also most companies don't pay the price the public pays.


I know a bit about this. Our company should get a deal like that, in fact Interjet has an "Interjet for Business" service advertised on their site. But we haven't done it yet. We don't even have a travel agent, which would also make sense.

That kind of arrangement also exists with hotel chains and rental car chains.


Quote:
"Economy Plus, or whatever you want to call it"
Yea , the verbiage is getting ridiculous


I wish we had standardized classes. Like:

Ultra (things like current 1st class suites and Etihad's "The Residence")
First
Second (business)
Third (economy plus)
Steerage (regular economy)

But that won't work, either. For one thing what about domestic business vs international business? In some airlines there's a big difference. Aeromexico, for instance, has lie flat business seats with the works for (mostly) international flights in wide bodies In narrow bodies they have wider seats with better recline and more leg room, plus meals and individual screens. Both are called Clase Premier.

Besides, it's an issue mostly for enthusiast and, to a lesser degree, frequent fliers.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
October 23rd, 2015 at 10:29:55 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 689
Posts: 7926
Quote: Nareed

Steerage (regular economy)


That's funny. Can you imagine the FAA telling the airlines that to be in compliance with "truth in advertising" they must call it "steerage" class.

Originally in the part of the ship where the steering apparatus was, it's current meaning "section of a ship with the cheapest accommodations," first recorded 1804.

Steerage class in 1906.
October 23rd, 2015 at 10:47:49 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 313
Posts: 10666
Quote: Pacomartin
That's funny. Can you imagine the FAA telling the airlines that to be in compliance with "truth in advertising" they must call it "steerage" class.


Spirit and Viva can call it "Cattle Class"

Quote:
Steerage class in 1906.


Sunlight and fresh air. That's a lot better than economy ;)

Seriously, that photo seems good when compared to the actual "accommodations" below deck.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
October 26th, 2015 at 9:37:19 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 313
Posts: 10666
Quote: Pacomartin
One third of domestic passengers are on AeroMexico (former flag carrier of Mexico).


Aeromexico had two advantages: it was established and it flies to every airport in the country.

Volaris was rather nimble picking over Mexicana's corpse and expanding to the US. Interjet's been moving rather slowly in comparison, opting lately for thin routes and smaller planes. Viva did well making a hub in Monterrey.

Quote:
The 57 airports in Mexico are normally owned by airport groups. Percentage include international travelers


AICM means "aeropuerto internacional de la Ciudad de Mexico." It and ASA (Aeropuertos y Servicios Auxiliares) are Federal government entities. ASA also manages fuel distribution in all the country's airports, even when privately owned.

The new MEX airport will be "owned" by GACM "Grupo Aeropuertario de la Ciudad de Mexico," which is also a federal government entity.

Toluca's airport is owned by the government of the State of Mexico, for all the good that does them. The poor thing went from hot and novel sensation to a semi-ghost town in a remarkably short period. For all that, it's very well-kept. Better than MEX T1.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
October 26th, 2015 at 6:24:35 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 689
Posts: 7926
Quote: Nareed

Toluca's airport is owned by the government of the State of Mexico, for all the good that does them. The poor thing went from hot and novel sensation to a semi-ghost town in a remarkably short period. For all that, it's very well-kept. Better than MEX T1.


The largest public works project in USA was from 1992-2006 and cost $14.6 billion ( the Big Dig ) in Boston, Massachusetts. So the construction of the new Airport in Mexico whose estimate was revised on September 4, 2014 to 169 billion pesos ($13 billion) would be a big project by USA standards.

The Big Dig was originally scheduled to be completed in 1998 at an estimated cost of $2.8 billion (in 1982 dollars). So needless to say nearly every project costs more and takes longer than projected. Presumably so will the new Mexico City airport.

Very little relief seems to be coming by routing more transfers through Guadalajara and Monterrey. I would not be surprised if Toluca has a revival into the big leagues. Querétaro is building their airport with regional flights.

Besides Spirit Airlines is flying into Toluca instead of Mexico City to save money and reduce competition. The government is likely to raise landing fees on foreign airlines that use Mexico City airport to cover the extensive costs. While it is unthinkable that flights will go from Europe to Toluca, I think other airlines may consider it in search of lower fees.

European Airlines Destinations
Air France Paris-Charles de Gaulle (A380 service begins 3X/week in January 2016)
British Airways London-Heathrow
Iberia Madrid
KLM Amsterdam
Lufthansa Frankfurt, Munich
Latin American Airlines Destinations
Avianca Bogotá
Avianca El Salvador San Salvador
Avianca Peru Lima
Copa Airlines Panama City
Copa Airlines Colombia Bogotá
Cubana de Aviación Havana
LAN Airlines Santiago de Chile
LAN Perú Lima
TAM Airlines São Paulo-Guarulhos
Northern American Airlines Destinations
Air Canada Toronto-Pearson, Vancouver Seasonal: Montréal-Trudeau
Delta Air Lines Atlanta, Detroit, New York-JFK, Salt Lake City
American Airlines Charlotte, Chicago-O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Los Angeles, Miami, Phoenix
United Airlines Chicago-O'Hare, Denver, Houston-Intercontinental, Los Angeles, Newark,
San Francisco, Washington-Dulles
United Express Houston-Intercontinental
JetBlue Airways Fort Lauderdale, Orlando
Southwest Airlines Houston–Hobby, Orange County, San Antonio


In comparison to Mexico City, foreign airlines are barely present at Guadalajara and Monterrey
Europe – GDL Destinations
Latin America-GDL Destinations
Copa Airlines Panama City
Northern America-GDL Destinations
Delta Air Lines Atlanta, LAX,Seasonal: Salt Lake City
Delta Connect Atlanta, Seasonal: Salt Lake City
American Airlines Dallas/Fort Worth, Los Angeles, Phoenix
United Airlines Houston-Intercontinental
United Express Houston-Intercontinental
Alaska Airlines LAX, San Jose
Europe – MTY Destinations
Latin America-MTY Destinations
Copa Airlines Panama City
Northern America-MTY Destinations
Delta Air Lines Seasonal: Detroit
Delta Connect Atlanta, Detroit, LAX
American Airlines Dallas/Fort Worth,Miami
American Eagle Dallas/Fort Worth
United Express Houston-Intercontinental, Chicago OHare
Alaska Airlines LAX, San Jose
October 27th, 2015 at 7:38:02 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 313
Posts: 10666
Quote: Pacomartin
Presumably so will the new Mexico City airport.


You mean "assuredly"?

Quote:
While it is unthinkable that flights will go from Europe to Toluca, I think other airlines may consider it in search of lower fees.


It makes the most sense for business travelers, actually, if the flights arrive late at night, past 9 pm, The Santa Fe area, a tightly packed business-corporate district, is very close to Toluca.

The transportation problem remains, though, which is the BIG reason Volaris and Interjet fled Toluca

BTW, I think a short-lived mess named Air Madrid ran flights from Spain to Toluca for a while.

And who knows where all the business and private jets stashed at Toluca fly to.

About the only European flights that reach MTTY or GDL are cargo planes. I've seen an Air France Cargo 747s at GDL, and the other day I caught a Lufthansa Cargo on flightradar24 coming into MTY.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
October 27th, 2015 at 8:46:41 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 48
Posts: 4439
You want the Golden Age of Airtravel... well New Zealanders just got it. Kiwi Regional Airlines much-watched first day of operations was frought with delays and cancellations.... a demonstration of the greatest airmanship ever. Even when under the closest of media scrutiny they did not let the printed schedule over ride a pilot's view of the the weather and the safety of the flight. No executive complained or criticized any pilot's decision. They started out the way they mean to continue: Passenger safety first without any pressure what so ever to maintain a schedule.

I look forward to continued operations of this low cost carrier and will be proud if they ever throw my travel plans utterly out of whack.
October 27th, 2015 at 10:22:16 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 689
Posts: 7926
Quote: Nareed
About the only European flights that reach MTTY or GDL are cargo planes. I've seen an Air France Cargo 747s at GDL, and the other day I caught a Lufthansa Cargo on flightradar24 coming into MTY.


Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA plans to begin four or five weekly flights between Boston and Cork, the second-biggest city in Ireland next May. The company plans to fly between Boston and Cork with a Boeing 737-800, which seats 162 passengers in a two-class configuration and would offer connecting flights from Cork to Barcelona.

Mexico doesn't have the luxury of flying transatlantic in smaller planes.

4700 km Logan Intl Arpt, Boston, MA (BOS) to Cork Arpt, Cork, IE (ORK)
8690 km Escobedo Arpt, Monterrey, MX (MTY) to Barajas Arpt, Madrid, ES (MAD)


But smaller European airlines are offering international flights to Cancun. For example Orbest flies from Madrid to Cancun on a 9 year old A330-200 with an all economy 358 seats.

In little more than a month Iberia is taking delivery of eleven less inexpensive widebodies ($200m), Airbus A330-200 with 19 business class and 269 economy seats. They are flown distances of over 10,000 km. Iberia currently flies two Airbus A340-600 's to Mexico City with 42-46 business class seats and 300 economy seats.

The smaller Dreamliners B787-8 acquired by AeroMexico (about US$224.6 million) are configured with 32 business class seats and 211 economy seats.

The smaller aircraft with fewer number of business seats are more suitable for smaller destinations. Perhaps Iberia will take the initiative of flying from Spain to a Mexican Airport other than Mexico City or Cancun.
October 28th, 2015 at 8:03:33 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 313
Posts: 10666
Quote: Pacomartin
Mexico doesn't have the luxury of flying transatlantic in smaller planes.


Not non-stop flights.

A few years back Volaris published a note on Dec. 28 (Mexico's version of April Fool's Day) saying they had acquired an A-330 and could be flying from MEX to Madrid.

At the time Volaris offered a complimentary tiny snack and drinks on all flights. When I flew with them to Vegas (3:30-3:45 hour flight), they did the snack service twice. Naturally the A-330 to Madrid was a joke, but I wondered if for a 10+ hour flight they'd serve snacks four times :)

That, IMO, keeps the low costs from developing really long flights. Interjet offers a cold sandwich in addition to a snack on their longest flights only (to JFK and I think to Bogota). But that's still very simple catering. For anything longer, aside from the larger planes they'd need to set up real catering and real food. Perhaps it's not worth it to set that up for only a few flights, even if there is a fee for each meal served.

Interjet might, if it can get the permissions or rights, offer a flight MEX-JFK-LHR, serving two cold sandwiches, one on each leg. I just don't know who'd want to pay for a very long flight on a small plane, albeit with economy plus style seating (more or less), without any real onboard entertainment, WiFi, or even one full meal. Flight time couldn't be less than 11 hours, and you have to add ground time for refueling at JFK. Plus likely passengers would have to deplane, go through immigration and customs, then through security and re-board the plane (I hear "transit passenger" is not a well-understood concept in the US).

I really dislike the idea of very long flights on small planes. I mean, sure, the economy (or economy +) seat is the same on a 737 as in a 747(*), and aisle access is similar for most passengers. But a larger plane has small areas where you can stand around during the flight. Near the galleys, near the doors, near the lavatories. In a smaller plane there is some room at the rear lavatories and galley, and a bit at the front, but you're invariably in someone's way. Getting up and walking around just isn't as simple on a small jet.

(*) Actually in some wide bodies, depending on airline and configuration, there can be as much as an additional inch in seat width as compared to narrow bodies.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
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