Get rid of victimless crimes?

Long weekend for some of you coming up, so how about a topic to chew on?

Would you be in favor of getting rid of any crime that has no victim?

Think before you answer. Sports betting would be 100% legal. Prostitution would be 100% legal. Drugs would be 100% legal from weed to Blue Sky Meth. To avoid total chaos, assume we phase it in over say 5 years. But once the phase starts, you cannot stop it.

Now, there would still be nuisance laws. If your neighbor was running a brothel and cars coming at all hours, you would have grounds to complain. But if it was peaceful and quiet you would not. There would be regulations, if you bought heroin at WMT it had better be as pure as the label said. If you buy out of the trunk of a car you take your chances.

Would you live in this world? Could you mentally accept it?

Wait, drugs and prostitution are victimless crimes?!? Ask these poor women or the addicts if there are no victims?

Quote: FrGamble

Wait, drugs and prostitution are victimless crimes?!? Ask these poor women or the addicts if there are no victims?

If a woman is forced into it then that is human trafficking and that is a crime with a victim. But if a woman decides she wants to do it as a way of earning high income then that is free will.

I find it hard to believe that a woman who wants to earn a high income will freely choose to sell her body for sex with random strangers. There are a multitude of other ways to earn money without the danger, harmful effects emotionally and physically, and with more consistency and legitimacy. I maintain that when women "freely choose" this profession they are really feel forced into it because they feel they have no other choice.

Quote: FrGamble

I find it hard to believe that a woman who wants to earn a high income will freely choose to sell her body for sex with random strangers. There are a multitude of other ways to earn money without the danger, harmful effects emotionally and physically, and with more consistency and legitimacy. I maintain that when women "freely choose" this profession they are really feel forced into it because they feel they have no other choice.

There are many jobs I cannot believe people do and I also find it hard to believe women do this. But the thing is, many do. Lets put the "moral" part aside for the moment. An uneducated, younger woman might look at being a waitress and making $150 for a full 8 hour shift of lugging heavy trays and running all over the place. Then she might see a chance for $300 for an hour with a client.

Now, most women will not take the $300, which is why the ones that will get the $300. Different people have different emotions for different things. Plus, we all know that there is some segment of women who view sex with their husband as the price they pay for living in his house and being taken care of. Legalization just gives them more choices, IMHO anyways.

Check out the book "Super Casinpo" and just read the sidebars about the hooker. She is a girl who preferred being a hooker to low-pay work. Interesting take.

I think my answer is yes. Partly is my unwavering stance on personal freedoms, partly because I seem to see an awful lot of things that make me go "wtf?". The news article I posted about the nude selfies is a perfect example. That there is the "WTF of the Month". But thinking about the topic at large... it's got me thinking.

FrG brings up a good point about "victims". I'm the sort that doesn't (or at least didn't) get addicted to coke. I am certain that if it were decriminalized, I could toot up some 8-balls all weekend long to really give my opponents the business in a hockey tourney, have an uncomfortable Monday as I came down, and then be a-ok for the rest of forever. That is victimless, surely. But what if I overdid it? Maybe a few extra bumps for the championship game, a little too much try-hard, and I have a massive coronary. Does that now create a victim of my son? An interesting question.

Or take my actual addiction - going fast. All those weeks and miles of doing 150+ on surface streets. I ain't never hurt nothing bigger than a sparrow. Surely there was no victim, unless you consider the traumatization of those who I passed lol. But what if I binned it? If I hit a car going that fast, I'd cut the car and anyone inside it in half. Surely that's victimization. Perhaps speeding is legal, but we create "Uncontrolled Contact with a Person/Vehicle/Dwelling" traffic ordinances?

And then, of course, you'd have .gov making all these new decisions. Lol. While I'm for removing the more asinine laws, such as we seem to see daily, I have zero faith that they could define and codify all this stuff without mucking the whole thing up. I think you'd see a lot more new and exciting rules to replace the control that they just lost, as their redefinition of victim becomes wide and all-encompassing.

Quote: Face

FrG brings up a good point about "victims". I'm the sort that doesn't (or at least didn't) get addicted to coke. I am certain that if it were decriminalized, I could toot up some 8-balls all weekend long to really give my opponents the business in a hockey tourney, have an uncomfortable Monday as I came down, and then be a-ok for the rest of forever. That is victimless, surely. But what if I overdid it? Maybe a few extra bumps for the championship game, a little too much try-hard, and I have a massive coronary. Does that now create a victim of my son? An interesting question.

You can mess up your life and wind up dead, disabled or in a decades-long comma, and thus make a victim of your son, through plenty of completely legal means like alcohol, a racing accident, a fishing accident, and even a hockey accident, among many others.

I assume that as a loving father and responsible adult, you take precautions against such things, as do most people. Yet the possibility is always there.

The whole premise is wrong. We don't jail people who harm others, we jail people who violate the rights of others. If we did the former, then think of the three people who'd be able to escape prison in a normal lifetime. You won't study medicine like your parents want you to? Do you realize how much this hurts them? You study medicine like your parents want you to, even though it makes you miserable? Have you any idea how much that hurts yourself? You're gay and want to marry someone of the same sex? How much harm does this to your family? you're gay and repress it so you can marry "traditionally" in order to spare your family's feelings? Do you know how much this will hurt you, your spouse and your family?

Now, there are also a ton of things that are harmful physically and psychologically to some greater or lesser degree, yet remain legal. Alcohol and tobacco are obvious, but the wrong diet, eating too much, dressing a certain way, reading certain things, etc. can have as deleterious effects long term as drugs or alcohol. Do we ban them? Do we regulate how much people can eat?

Drug addiction, it's true, poses some social problems which need to be addressed, as does prostitution. Yet the solution is not to incarcerate everyone who has anything to do with it.

I've never done pot or hard drugs. I have plenty of reasons why not, but the illegality of the thing was never a factor for me.

Some crimes are victimless, but if not prevented can lead to victims. For example speeding. There's no victim if I do 70 kph in a 40 zone.... until I come around the corner and take out a cyclist if I lose control. If I start playing around with fireworks, there's no victim, until one shoots off and burns my neighbours barn. There's plenty more examples, but often we create rules in society to stop harm happening, not to prosecute the harm afterwards.

Defining Victimless crimes can lead us into the territory of the Volunteerism too....

Quote: FrGamble

I find it hard to believe that a woman who wants to earn a high income will freely choose to sell her body for sex with random strangers.

There are countless stories of women who
were call girls to put themselves thru an
expensive college. You're confusing call
girls with street walkers. Call girls usually
have a dependable repeat customer base,
it's hardly random like a street walkers.

Quote: FrGamble

I find it hard to believe that a woman who wants to earn a high income will freely choose to sell her body for sex with random strangers.

I find it hard to believe that more young/attractive women don't. The money is very good and high-end escorting is likely a lot safer than you think. For example, the girls with the service Eliot Spitzer used charged $1,000 an hour (source).

BTW -- Another 100% agreement with EB.