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Hey FrGamble!
| May 22nd, 2020 at 6:14:42 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Is that all you have? You keep saying that even though I have outlined two different logical arguments. You are acting like a child. Please add some substance to the above. Would you like me to respond that your false ideas of atheism is a story you were told and you believed it? You must have some other reason besides your personal feelings. Maybe you have some logical argument or evidence, please present it as I have done for you! “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| May 22nd, 2020 at 10:33:05 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Only a mistake if you are tied to the anchor of a god religion. In religion god is the first answer to any question. In science god is the last answer and shouldn't be on the list of answers at all. There no question in science that's answered, blame it on god. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| May 22nd, 2020 at 10:39:44 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
It's 95% of your argument. You were told a story as a child and you believed it. So you spend all your time defending it with 'logic' and 'reason' that isn't logic and reason at all. You think you can make any wild statement and make it true by claiming it's 'obvious' and 'clear' to anybody with half a brain. Mud is clearer than your logic and reason, and no amount of bullying from your priest bully pulpit will change it, If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| May 23rd, 2020 at 2:57:15 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | I am not making a wild statement. I am saying that for this universe to come into existence or move or follow strict natural laws there needs to be a cause. Is that wild? Let's look at what you are saying: that the material world has always existed without a cause and that motion is unexplainable and that even with an infinite amount of time somehow entropy is still happening. You believe in a universe that cannot have time since the present moment rests on a finite number of past events that require a first moment. Bob you are speaking nonsense. Your only response has been to insult and say over and over again that I am not logical or reasonable. Just deal with the fact the universe has a cause, that is something that I reckon 100% of scientists would at least ponder about and would never deny. Why do you? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| May 23rd, 2020 at 4:46:56 AM permalink | |
| SOOPOO Member since: Feb 19, 2014 Threads: 22 Posts: 4170 |
No. Not wild. As I've said a few times before, just because I can't figure out the answer to a question doesn't mean your answer is correct. The human brain just has limitations. Which through technology we keep overcoming. Padre, imagine a really bright 17th century guy transported to 2020 USA. And he saw an Iphone. It wouldn't appear to be God to him? He just sailed over weeks across an ocean, and he can talk to his family he left thousands of miles behind? That would violate the 'strict natural laws' as he knows them, right? He would only believe it was supernatural in some sense? To me, it is equally hard for me to believe the universe 'came into existence' as it is for me to believe 'it has always been here'. For all I know there is a third option that I can't even conceive of yet. |
| May 23rd, 2020 at 5:24:59 AM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 | https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/ Virtual particles are constantly winking in and out of existence, but sometimes they leave something behind. Leave enough somethings behind, they can collect and collapse into a singularity that becomes a big bang. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| May 23rd, 2020 at 9:32:18 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
"...when people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no time for God to make the universe in." Stephen Hawking It's easy to accept that the universe has been here forever when you realize that time is not a constant. Time is here and there in the universe, something we cannot comprehend because we're stuck is it like a fish is stuck in the ocean. I take pity on you that you have to constantly defend whatever theory your whacko church supports. My ex priest friend says you have no choice, you take an vow when you become a priest that you will uphold and defend all the churches beliefs. If you stray from that you lose your job. How awful for you. That's what happened to my priest friend. He strayed, was asking too many questions and heard he was being fired so he quit before they could do it. Best thing he ever did, he says. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| May 23rd, 2020 at 12:38:31 PM permalink | |
| petroglyph Member since: Aug 3, 2014 Threads: 25 Posts: 6227 | "Now quantum physicist Pasi Lähteenmäki at Aalto University in Finland and his colleagues reveal that by varying the speed at which light can travel, they can make light appear from nothing." Good article. More evidence that even in a vacuum the area within, is not empty. Supports my theory that there is no "nothing". The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW |
| May 23rd, 2020 at 2:38:16 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
It's interesting that in the professional research being done on kids remembering past lives, they sometimes run across a kid that took 5-6-7 years to come back into another body. They report that during those years they were in a place where there was no time, like being in suspended animation. They were not aware years had passed. Remember these are 3-4 year old kids saying this stuff and they always tell the same story. It's a limbo of some sort, not scary, not fun, just a place where they are not aware of time passing. Interesting. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| May 23rd, 2020 at 3:19:24 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I don't think you are giving our smart 17th century friend enough credit. Once it was explained and shown to be in accord with the strict natural laws it would be just amazing technology. However, your point is well taken it would be hard to believe and maybe since he had no knowledge of electricity hardly or electromagnetic waves it might seem supernatural. The end of your post could be considered an Agnostic Creed. It is hard to believe the universe came into existence, I get that. All the matter of the universe packed into a space smaller than the period at the end of this sentence. Yes, to believe that and have a problem with someone walking on water seem hypocritical. Science is awesome and amazing! So is our God! Just like you might not be giving the 17th century guy enough credit I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit. Humanity has thought about the question of the origin of the universe since the very beginning. I think it takes a heck of a lot more faith than I have to think there is any answer or idea out there that is possible, which we haven't thought about. Logic also helps us because it is not changeable. X and not-X will never be the same thing no matter what. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |