Hey FrGamble!

Quote: Evenbob

They were mocked relentlessly by normal
kids. I always felt it unfair that if we only
got one life, like everybody said, that you
could be born with a major handicap.
It sucked.

I'm glad you see that as unfair, it is. I'm glad you are also wrestling with trying to find hope for them. Do you see how the idea of reincarnation actually can be used to give license to those who treat the handicap unfairly? If it is just a roll of the dice in regards to who is handicapped and in the next life it could be you instead of them it seems to suck the motivation to be kind and loving to those who suffer. In fact you could use the argument that if your life sucks then why not just push the restart button again and try again in the next life. It kind of feels like you are saying life is a slot machine and if you lose just try again. Wouldn't it be better to think that this is the only life we have and that everyone is to be treated with the dignity and respect they deserve so as to help them and us find perfect joy and fulfillment in the true life to come with God? That seems to be a more hopeful solution than the one you are proposing.

Quote:

When even the strongest
doubter see's the double and triple
and quadruple blind way the research
is conducted, they admit they don't
know what's going on but something
definitely is.

You are kidding yourself here. You like to point out stats 99% of the scientific community think everything you are talking about is nonsense and not truly scientifically verifiable or even testable.

Quote:

That's because it's totally logical.
We are surrounded by rebirth, up to
our necks in it. It's only logical to apply
it to ourselves and the science research
is showing we're right to believe it.

I'm sorry I don't see anything logical about it. What do you mean we are surrounded by rebirth?

Quote:

It's organized god religions that have
no logic and reason. That we get some
kind of reward when we die if we behave
ourselves. That's what you tell a child when
you want his cooperation, it's ridiculous
to an adult.

Are you saying adults don't understand reward and consequences for our actions? Isn't that what surrounds us and defines our lives more than some mystical type of rebirth?

Quote:

Reincarnation is very boring. So we die
and we come back here in another
birth cycle. Forever.

You are right it does sound very boring. It sounds like torture.

Quote:

But it's fair, and
fairness is what you get with eternal
random chance.

Please tell me what is fair about eternal random chance?

Quote: FrGamble

I'm glad you see that as unfair, it is. I'm glad you are also wrestling with trying to find hope for them.

I'm not wrestling with anything. It's
well known and verified that the
early Church taught reincarnation
right alongside spending eternity
at the side of god and Jesus. If
you didn't get that, you got to start
over. When the NT was put together
they axed reincarnation because
it didn't fit their agenda of reward
and punishment. Heaven or hell,
one or the other.

Quote:

Please tell me what is fair about eternal random chance?

You joined a gambling forum and
you don't understand random
chance? It's the great equalizer,
everything evens out in the end
if you wait long enough. There
will be just as many reds as blacks.
You will have just as many lives
that suck as those that don't

But because you create your own
reality, you always have the power
to make your life go in certain
directions. Or not. I'm old enough
now to realize what was terribly
important to me in my 20's or
30's or 40's is not even a blip on
the radar now. My priorities have
moved on as they always do.

What this means is that NONE of it
was important, I just made it so.
I created those realities, as I'm
doing now. I believe the essence
of this is carried on to the next life,
that's how we're evolving as a
species. It's why who we are now
is nothing like who were 3000
years ago. Evolution, everything
evolves.

Your religion teaches anti evolution
nonsense to fit they're agenda. End
times, better behave, god is coming
to judge you, all your rewards come
after you die. In actuality all the
rewards and punishments are here
right now, in the eternal moment.
And you're mostly in charge of it,
which is obvious if you can look
around honestly and realize you
aren't a victim. Or you can play the
game you're playing, from a written
script. The universe doesn't care,
all of life is a stage and were just
actors on it..You choose your own
parts in it.

Quote: FrGamble

There is so much I disagree with you about in this post but I will just say how happy I am that you believe in the supernatural.

The problem is, supernatural doesn't
mean what you think it means. In
your version, if I cut my hand and
it heals, that's a supernatural event.
If an acorn falls to the ground and
a tree grows from it, that's supernatural.
Not quite..

Quote: Evenbob

I'm not wrestling with anything. It's
well known and verified that the
early Church taught reincarnation

This is a bald faced lie. I don't know where you got this but if you really believe it and are not just trolling me then I am legit worried about you.

Quote:

You joined a gambling forum and
you don't understand random
chance? It's the great equalizer,
everything evens out in the end
if you wait long enough. There
will be just as many reds as blacks.
You will have just as many lives
that suck as those that don't

So you think it is fair if we forever just keep going back and forth between good and crappy lives? Is that what you tell to the handicapped kid on the bus? Why should we suffer the bad lives at all?

Quote:

But because you create your own
reality,

Oh no, it is you who are just making stuff up as you go and it just gets worse and worse.

Quote:

What this means is that NONE of it
was important,

That is a guess an appropriate conclusion based on your worldview. Do you really accept that? Are you okay with that? If you make your own reality, why in the world would you create such a sad reality for yourself?

Quote:

Your religion teaches anti evolution
nonsense to fit they're agenda.

Another lie.

Quote: Evenbob

The problem is, supernatural doesn't
mean what you think it means. In
your version, if I cut my hand and
it heals, that's a supernatural event.
If an acorn falls to the ground and
a tree grows from it, that's supernatural.
Not quite..

That is not what I mean when I think of supernatural. I think of supernatural as being a spiritual or intellectual truth that is above the material world and governs it.

What do you mean by supernatural?

Quote: FrGamble

This is a bald faced lie. I don't know where you got this but if you really believe it and are not just trolling me then I am legit worried about you.

Need more, there is a ton of info
about this.

Hidden Beliefs Covered by the Church? Resurrection and Reincarnation in Early Christianity

https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/hidden-beliefs-covered-church-resurrection-and-reincarnation-early-christianity-006320

https://www.comparativereligion.com/reincarnation3.html


There is evidence that Origen, a Church father in early Christian times, taught reincarnation in his lifetime but that when his works were translated into Latin these references were concealed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation#Idea_of_reincarnation_in_the_early_Church


During the first several hundred years C.E.
there existed a heated debate over the reality of
reincarnation within Christianity. This paper contains
the main evidence provided by those arguing for and
against the idea of reincarnation. Both sides were
represented by Christian theologians living at the time.
In the end, the idea of reincarnation was rejected as a
Christian doctrine and the reasons for this rejection
are discussed.

file:///C:/Users/jbakk/Downloads/578-1-2114-1-10-20120218.pdf

Quote: FrGamble

So you think it is fair if we forever just keep going back and forth between good and crappy lives?

Too simplistic. You aren't born a
Rockefeller and then a beggar
in the next life. Just like you can
spin 10 reds in a row, there is
no rhyme or reason to it, it's
random. You make the best
of it with what you have, as is
obvious all around us. Some
people born with genius IQ's
are very successful, but wasted
genius is just as common. You
create your own reality as
we've discussed many times.

You chose the reality of the
Church for whatever reason.
You make that your reality.
You're doing it to yourself,
it's not coming from outside
you.
Surely realize you could dump
that any time you wish and
create a different reality like
my ex priest atheist friend did.
You see that, right?

Problem is, you think your reality
is the only one and everybody
needs to live that way or they're
wrong. But it doesn't matter,
you get another chance next time,
no one reality is the 'right' one.
This is what guru's and masters
aspire to, total acceptance of
life the way it really is. One of
my fave zen sayings is, when my
master eats, he eats. When he
chops wood, he chops wood.
Meaning he accepts everything
for what it is and doesn't see
it thru layers of his opinion
of it. Very hard to do. impossible
for most. I can't do it.

Quote: FrGamble

What do you mean by supernatural?

The dictionary definition:


su·per·nat·u·ral
/ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

If science can prove that some
kids accurately remember past
lives, that's hardly supernatural.
We just don't know the explanation.
Like I said we really don't yet know
what electricity is. Lots of theories,
but nobody is calling it supernatural,
even though it fits. It looks magical.

You make a bunch of claims that
can in no way be verified as even
being true, like Jesus walked on
water and will give you anything
you ask for. That's supernatural
mumbo jumbo,

Quote: Evenbob

Need more, there is a ton of info
about this.

Hidden Beliefs Covered by the Church? Resurrection and Reincarnation in Early Christianity

https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/hidden-beliefs-covered-church-resurrection-and-reincarnation-early-christianity-006320

https://www.comparativereligion.com/reincarnation3.html


There is evidence that Origen, a Church father in early Christian times, taught reincarnation in his lifetime but that when his works were translated into Latin these references were concealed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation#Idea_of_reincarnation_in_the_early_Church


During the first several hundred years C.E.
there existed a heated debate over the reality of
reincarnation within Christianity. This paper contains
the main evidence provided by those arguing for and
against the idea of reincarnation. Both sides were
represented by Christian theologians living at the time.
In the end, the idea of reincarnation was rejected as a
Christian doctrine and the reasons for this rejection
are discussed.

file:///C:/Users/jbakk/Downloads/578-1-2114-1-10-20120218.pdf

I am absolutely flabbergasted that you actually believe this? Do you think any of what you cited is real and truthful? If you do then you have much bigger problems than I thought. Seriously Bob I don't know what else to say. Please do some research and think more critically and reasonably. If you don't believe anything I say that is fine, I'm not going to convince you. However, really look into these things instead of just accepting the word of some article you read on crackpot websites. It is scary to me that you accept this stuff on face value and ignore any opinions or arguments than the ones that support your beliefs. Do you see the flimsy arguments the article you cited uses. It talks about secret teachings of Jesus that were silenced in the early centuries. It sounds like flat Earth type of conspiracy garbage. What were these secret teachings? How can we know they existed? Why did nobody talk about them for 3 centuries? Why would they be hidden? This is pure speculation and made up out of the air for that website to promote its own agenda. Read some objective history and think about it for a second and I hope you realize how wrong you are and that you are grasping for straws. You like to say that humanity is very gullible, don't prove it through your own thinking.

Quote: Evenbob

Too simplistic. You aren't born a
Rockefeller and then a beggar
in the next life. Just like you can
spin 10 reds in a row, there is
no rhyme or reason to it, it's
random.

If you flip a coin an infinite number of times, oh wait you can't flip a coin an infinite number of times because then there would be no first flip or 100th flip or any flips because it is logically impossible because of an infinite regress. But let's ignore the laws of logic in your world for a second, what would be the result of these flips, 50/50 right? The longer you flip the closer you come to equal amounts so if we have been flipping forever it would be exactly 50/50.

Quote:

You make the best
of it with what you have

And how do you do that with a life that is difficult? If you are just coming back and odds are it will be better why even try to make the best of it? It makes no sense and would lead to hopelessness, suicide, and complete lack of concern for anyone who was suffering in this life. Is that the reality you want to create? Pick a better one.

Quote:

Problem is, you think your reality
is the only one and everybody
needs to live that way or they're
wrong.

You like dictonary definitions, look up reality. There is one reality and it doesn't change to your whims or desires. It is like truth. There is truth and there is falsehoods. What is real and true is not different things for different people. If someone believes the sky is blue and another believes it is purple with pink pokadots then they both cannot be right.