Hey FrGamble!

Quote: FrGamble

He did find God.

He looked but never found. Hesse
and Joseph Campbell lived in
the same time period. Both came
from very religious families,
both studied for religious
professions, both dropped out &
became god seekers who never
found god.

This is interesting. In the late 1700's
several secret fraternities were formed,
the Illuminati and Freemasons among
them, to skirt around the stranglehold
the Catholic Church had on science
and progress. Especially anything that
was Protestant supported. Really
smart men joined these secret societies
and drove the Church nuts.

How does this figure in to your claim
that the Church was always open minded
and supportive of all things science when
obviously the opposite was true.

First do some real research on the Freemasons and I think you will be able to see for yourself.

Quote: FrGamble

First do some real research on the Freemasons and I think you will be able to see for yourself.

Since its inception in the 18th century the Catholic Church has vehemently opposed the Freemasons. In fact both Catholics and Jews will discriminated against by the Freemasons.
But let's stick with the Illuminati. They were formed by educated men because of the stranglehold the church had on science and philosophy. At one time the Illuminati numbered 2500. How does this fit in with your statement that the church has always been open-minded about science and philosophy. If that was true why would they need to form the Illuminati.

I can picture FrG rocking out to this song (especially with those lyrics of 'sacrifice')

Quote: aceofspades

I can picture FrG rocking out to this song (especially with those lyrics of 'sacrifice')

I keep looking for the 'sacrifice' Jesus
made and still haven't found one.
He actually was hugely rewarded in
the myth, none of the 100k others
who died on the cross reaped the
rewards like Jesus did. Xtians never
talk about this. If you even bring it
up they look at you like you're insane.
Such is the nature of brainwashing,
you aren't the one who's crazy in
your cult, everybody else is.

You keep saying this as if it has value. I have already shown you that you were wrong about how Christians theologically view the sacrifice of Jesus. You also don't seem to understand the nature of sacrifice, that it should be and is rewarded. Through the sacrifice of Jesus all of those who died on the cross can receive eternal life as well as every human being who has ever died. The consequence of Jesus' sacrifice is so that all of us could go to Heaven. Once again you don't seem to get it. Everything that Jesus did was for you, for me, and for all of us. Hence the supreme nature of His sacrifice.

Quote: FrGamble

You keep saying this as if it has value.

Here's what you and all Xtians
don't get. Something in NOT
a sacrifice if you do it to be
hugely rewarded. That's the
fly in your stinky sacrifice
ointment. If Jesus had no idea
he was divine, no inkling, then
what he did could be called a
sacrifice. But all Xtions insist
he absolutely knew he was
divine. You can't have it both
ways, you're painted into a corner.
Surely you see that. Paul invented
the whole religion, including
original sin. Bart Ehrman says
it should be called Paulineism,
and not Xtianity.

BTW, my ex
priest friend said he was taught
all thru seminary that Jesus died
for original sin. He never questioned
how Jesus died for a concept that
wasn't even invented till after he
died. Long after he died. The whole
religion is a lie and a hoax. The
biggest con ever played on man.

Quote: Evenbob

Here's what you and all Xtians
don't get. Something in NOT
a sacrifice if you do it to be
hugely rewarded.

Then we have NO problem. Jesus did not suffer and die for you and me and all of us to get rewarded. With what and how could you reward God anyway? It was a sacrificial gift.

Quote:

If Jesus had no idea
he was divine, no inkling, then
what he did could be called a
sacrifice. But all Xtions insist
he absolutely knew he was
divine.

You are equating knowing you are divine with being omniscient and they are not the same thing.

Quote:

BTW, my ex
priest friend said he was taught
all thru seminary that Jesus died
for original sin. He never questioned
how Jesus died for a concept that
wasn't even invented till after he
died. Long after he died.

Original Sin is well....original. it has always been with us, heck it is part of the Hebrew Scriptures. A conception of original sin or understanding of it is present in every culture and every religion that has ever existed. It is the question of why we struggle and suffer and everyone must answer that question whether you are religious or not.

Quote: FrGamble

Then we have NO problem. Jesus did not suffer and die for you

Correct, he like everybody on the
cross died for breaking a law
or pissing somebody off. The
rest of his myth was added after
he dies and the urban legend
grew.

Quote:

You are equating knowing you are divine with being omniscient and they are not the same thing.

And you are making it up as you
go along because there are no
facts to work with. You have a
story, so you pick and choose
the 'what if's' to fit your story
like a glove. Old trick, yet people
still fall for it.

Quote:

Original Sin is well....original.

Originally made up, and not that
long ago.

'"...also rejects the doctrine of original sin as not being original to the text of Romans 5:12. He and others see original sin as an invention of the pre-enlightenment, and more specifically an invention of the church Father Augustine of Hippo (AD 354–430) who is said to have greatly influenced the Western church with this belief"

In the myth Jesus died for original
sin, something he knew nothing
about as it hadn't been invented
yet. This is why Xtianity is a myth
and not reality, none of it make
when examined.