Hey FrGamble!

Quote: FrGamble

An all good God has everything to do with morality. God is the source of all that is good.

And the source of all evil, if you
believe god is the source of
everything. You are not addressing
Socrates dilemma, you are merely
stating your church's position
on morality. As I predicted you
would do. Theists refuse to discuss
this. Is something moral because
it's innately moral, or is it moral
because god says it is. It can't
be both.

In the time of Jesus slavery was
totally moral and justified in the
eyes of society. There was no state
welfare, if you didn't have a profession
you would likely starve if you weren't
a slave to a wealthy property owner.
Jesus never spoke against slavery
because it was an important and
integral part of the society he lived
in.

Quote: Wizard

Like in biblical times. Nowhere does the bible, even Jesus, condemn slavery.

The entire Bible is based on being against slavery based on race. The fundamental story of the Passover is about God freeing an enslaved people. As Evenbob points out the type of slavery present in the ancient world was not slavery based on race or racism.

Quote: Evenbob

You are not addressing
Socrates dilemma, you are merely
stating your church's position
on morality. As I predicted you
would do. Theists refuse to discuss
this. Is something moral because
it's innately moral, or is it moral
because god says it is. It can't
be both.

Why can't it be both? If God is the source of all good then it solves the dilemma you are speaking about. Socrates gets to this in the dialogue because unlike Eutherphyo he is not so pious when it comes to the belief in the pantheon of Greek gods and what they do.

What you are not addressing, as I predicted, is the real dilemma for those who do not ground morality is something greater than themselves. How can you even claim anything is good or bad without some objective ground for our morality?

Quote: FrGamble

The entire Bible is based on being against slavery based on race. The fundamental story of the Passover is about God freeing an enslaved people. As Evenbob points out the type of slavery present in the ancient world was not slavery based on race or racism.

Padre - you do realize this view is American-centric as blacks were not the only race used as throughout history - there are plenty of examples of whites being enslaved

Quote: FrGamble

Why can't it be both?

Because then it becomes a vicious
circle. The dog chasing it's tail.
Like, the Bible is true because the
Bible says so.

If morality is innate in the universe,
it needs no god to verify it. If it's
a law standing on it's own, which
it obviously is not, what would we
need a god for. And if all morality
comes from a god, there is only
morality because the god says so.
Which is it, both cannot be true
at the same time.

Neither is true, we make it up as
we go along and incorporate it
into our society structure. God has
nothing to do with it.

Quote: aceofspades

Padre - you do realize this view is American-centric as blacks were not the only race used as throughout history - there are plenty of examples of whites being enslaved

Good point.

Quote: Evenbob

If morality is innate in the universe,
it needs no god to verify it.

Then where does this innate morality come from?

Quote:

If it's
a law standing on it's own, which
it obviously is not,

Why do you say it is obvious? Do you think that rape can be a morally good thing?

Quote:

And if all morality
comes from a god, there is only
morality because the god says so.

Morality comes from somewhere? Wouldn't an all-good God make the most sense?

Quote: FrGamble

Then where does this innate morality come from?



Why do you say it is obvious? Do you think that rape can be a morally good thing?



Morality comes from somewhere? Wouldn't an all-good God make the most sense?

Wouldn't god approve of rape if there were only one man and one woman left on Earth (and the woman was a lesbian and hated the man) and without offspring, humans would die off and therefore, there would be nobody left to worship it?

Quote: FrGamble

Morality comes from somewhere? Wouldn't an all-good God make the most sense?

Morality is a human invention . It varies from society to society. Morality coming from a god makes no sense at all. It's something humans have to work out on their own.

Quote: FrGamble

Then where does this innate morality come from?



Why do you say it is obvious? Do you think that rape can be a morally good thing?



Morality comes from somewhere? Wouldn't an all-good God make the most sense?

Morality is subjective.

Many of us wouldn't be here if it weren't for rape, somewhere along the scale. Something like 1 in 14 have a trace of Mongolian DNA.