Hey FrGamble!

Quote: aceofspades

Sounds like something out of Harry Potter where the exact language of a spell must be used in order for it to work

That's EXACTLY what is is. The one word
change completely nullified everything
the priest had done in 3 years. None
of the people he married were married
in the eyes of the Church. None of the
confessions he heard were valid. None
of the last rites he did were valid. They
actually tried to hunt down every person
who he did mass for and make it right,
as well as every person he did anything
for as a priest.

Because one word was wrong at this
priests baptism, their god supposedly
ignored anything this priest did. I'm
sorry, but this story is frightening.
They make up magic ceremonies,
then decree the ceremonies are so
important, so powerful, that if you
mess up just one word in the incantation
god will ignore you.

Hubris doesn't even cover it. This story
is shocking to me, it's like something
out of the 15th century when they
burned witches and superstition
ruled.

The only possible thing that could now redeem the church would be, for the priest/not priest to be burned alive until deadl

Okay in regards to that story it was not just one word it was many words including changing the names of the Holy Trinity. Secondly it didn't nullify everything the priest did. I think exaggeration always leads to mistakes and false opinions. The Sacraments do have some requirements that are necessary, just like your own work. If you fundamentally change what you are saying or doing it is no longer what it was supposed to be. I think that is pretty clear and logical, not magic at all.

Quote: FrGamble

Okay in regards to that story it was not just one word it was many words including changing the names of the Holy Trinity. Secondly it didn't nullify everything the priest did. I think exaggeration always leads to mistakes and false opinions. The Sacraments do have some requirements that are necessary, just like your own work. If you fundamentally change what you are saying or doing it is no longer what it was supposed to be. I think that is pretty clear and logical, not magic at all.

The only thing it didn't change was
baptisms the priest did. Everything
else had to be redid. I read half a
dozen articles on this and they all
said it was because of the one word
change. These were Catholic articles.
You have a source that says 'many
words' were changed? Please post it.

I saw a couple videos with the priest
himself. He never mentioned other
words that were changed, just that
'we' was used instead of 'I'.

Quote: FrGamble

Okay in regards to that story it was not just one word it was many words

Read TWO MORE stories written by
Catholic sources.

"Father Hood’s baptism and ordination had been invalid because the presiding deacon at his baptism in infancy had said, “We baptize you” rather than “I baptize you."

2nd article:

"According to a news release from the archdiocese, Father Hood's family presented him for baptism at St. Anastasia Parish in Troy in 1990, where Deacon Mark Springer was presiding. Deacon Springer attempted to baptize him using the words "We baptize you" instead of the church's prescribed formula of "I baptize you."

No mention in any article I've read
that mentions any other misused
words. I saw a 15 min video on this
and they never mentioned anything
but 'I' being changed to 'We'.

Where did you get your info from,
I'm getting it from your own Church.

This is a very big deal in the atheist
community because it points to
just how much the Church is into
'magical thinking", which is a
treatable psychiatric condition.

Looks like you were right, the deacon in the case you are referring to changed the word to we intentionally and this makes the baptism invalid. Like if he would have used oil instead of water. It is an essential part of the rite to use the words. Like when you are taking an oath in court or at your wedding, you have to say the right words and do the right things. I'm sorry for the confusion, I must have read an article commenting on this story oncce that made me believe the deacon changed other words as well. Little things can have big repercussions.

Quote: FrGamble

Little things can have big repercussions.

The big part of this story is
the excruciating lengths
the Church went to in
contacting everybody
the priest had come in
contact with in his work.
Every marriage, every
confession, every time
he gave communion or
last rites. It all had to be
redone by a 'real' priest.

They take themselves and
their 'power' sooooo
seriously that it borders on
pathological. It's a man
made ceremony, it
didn't come directly from
some god. The words
themselves have no magic
power. It's the intent that
counts, not the words.
It's that way for any
ceremony ever invented.

It's a little frightening and
more than a little silly that
they think their words have
power with some invisible
force, just because someone
told them they do. These
could be very dangerous
people, and they were very
dangerous for a long time.
But not anymore, they got
carried away and lost the
power.

Actually it is not a man made ceremony for Catholics and it is the most serious of things. I get that since you don't believe in God you don't understand, but maybe if you thought about it from the point of view of a believer you would better understand.

Quote: FrGamble

Actually it is not a man made ceremony for Catholics

Of course it is. In fact the ritual
and the words changed over
the long history of the Church,
The baptism used in 799ad
is not the one used in 1600.
They constantly added and
took away from it.

As far as I know the essential words required for baptism have never been changed. If the rite has changed, which it has, it has been done through the authority of the Church.