Upcoming Primaries

January 19th, 2016 at 4:22:40 PM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Quote: AZDuffman
I am guessing by that you mean it reaches some of the same conclusions, and by that regard I suppose you are correct. Just because Marx believed in an unworkable system does not mean his reasoning is flawed.


Marx viewed all of human history and sociology to be class war, and the struggle of one class being dominated by another.

Marx would have probably reached a different conclusion, but I believe the analysis starts at the same point - whose got the power, whose exploited, who is active and who is passive. Marx claimed that any capitalist system where the means of production (and hence control of the masses and the state) was in the hands of a few would collapse. And that the capitalist state existed to exploit the workers (economic producers). In your example apart from the 1% a lot of the Trumps are the economic producers. Except they have some access to the wealth of the nation. Some of the dependent class are not workers, and thus not exploitable under the terms of Marx's view of the world... I'm not sure how he would have viewed them.

Quote:

I just look and see what I see. The HOAs are the kind that are happy when the city enacts photo enforcement of traffic laws. Happy at DUI checkpoints. Happy at regs for mowing the lawn. Will go along with almost anything sooner or later. Trumps want none of it. But it takes more energy to be a Trump so they are in the minority. Meanwhile the dependent class will sooner or later collapse.


Very classical liberal - small government, lack of interference in day-to-day lives, government exists to protect a small nucleus of rights, including the nation itself.

I disagree on your conclusions on the majority types of people who support Trump, and if those people do truly want the state out of everyone's day-to-day lives . But I am not sure that's a fruitful line of discussion.
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
January 19th, 2016 at 4:50:53 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 101
Posts: 6444
Quote: TheCesspit
Marx viewed all of human history and sociology to be class war, and the struggle of one class being dominated by another.

Marx would have probably reached a different conclusion, but I believe the analysis starts at the same point - whose got the power, whose exploited, who is active and who is passive. Marx claimed that any capitalist system where the means of production (and hence control of the masses and the state) was in the hands of a few would collapse. And that the capitalist state existed to exploit the workers (economic producers). In your example apart from the 1% a lot of the Trumps are the economic producers. Except they have some access to the wealth of the nation. Some of the dependent class are not workers, and thus not exploitable under the terms of Marx's view of the world... I'm not sure how he would have viewed them.


The Trumps in my example are either producers or wannabe producers. Smaller producers. Shopkeepers, contractors, hustlers of one sort or another. It is different than in the time of Marx in that back then there was no rationale for a smaller producer mostly. Even when a guy might make quality boots better than the factory there were few who could afford to buy the better item. Today it is different, many people will seek out the local, small guy.

It is more than exploitation, however. In "Mad Men" Don Draper mentions that people want to be told what to do so bad they will listen to anything. The Trumps do not want to be told what to do or think. The HOAs do. The Trumps are more likely producers because they are misfits in a corporate machine. They will not buy what someone is selling based on faith (e.g.: Global Warming.) They are in most societies in history, often dragged to "re-education camps" in less friendly regimes to get their minds right. In the USA they just have to put up with diversity training. Don't like it, but deal the bare minimum to keep their gigs.

Quote:
I disagree on your conclusions on the majority types of people who support Trump, and if those people do truly want the state out of everyone's day-to-day lives . But I am not sure that's a fruitful line of discussion.


Maybe or maybe not. I will say that the whole Trump thing is misunderstood by the media, the establishment, and the people who do not like him.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
January 19th, 2016 at 6:39:01 PM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Well, that helps me understand what Trump is selling at least.
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
January 20th, 2016 at 3:00:26 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 101
Posts: 6444
Quote: TheCesspit
Well, that helps me understand what Trump is selling at least.


Trump should be easy to understand. All he is doing is talking to normal folk who neither party wants to talk to but needs their votes.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
January 20th, 2016 at 6:19:33 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 3032
I would lay good money Trump gets the most delegates in the convention, but less than 50% of them. Should be very interesting to see what happens then.

Another good thing I'll say about Trump is he has made this election cycle quite interesting.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
January 20th, 2016 at 11:45:53 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 706
Posts: 8143
Quote: Wizard
I would lay good money Trump gets the most delegates in the convention, but less than 50% of them. Should be very interesting to see what happens then.
[

A lot of people don't realize how hard it is to win 50% of the delegates. Mitt Romney was given all the delegates from Florida and Arizona without winning 50% of the popular vote. He also got the same in Idaho and Virginia, but he had a majority of the popular vote and not just a plurality.

Jan 21 South Carolina : Newt Gingrich 23 Mitt Romney 2
Jan 31 Florida Candidate: Mitt Romney 50 and all (46.40% popular vote)
Feb 28 Arizona: Mitt Romney 29 and all (47.3% popular vote)
Mar 6 Idaho: Mitt Romney 32 and all (61.6% popular vote)
Mar 6 Virginia: Mitt Romney 43 and Ron Paul 2 (59.54% popular vote)

These early "winner take all states" gave Mitt Romney a strong head start in 2012.

There is some speculation that Donald Trump may get first place in all 35 states that have primaries without winning 50% in any of them. The caucuses could go to Cruz or other candidates.
Primaries only
  1. February 9, 2016 New Hampshire
  2. February 20, 2016 South Carolina
    March 1, 2016
  3. Alabama
  4. Arkansas
  5. Georgia
  6. Massachusetts
  7. Oklahoma
  8. Tennessee
  9. Texas
  10. Virginia
  11. March 5, 2016 Louisiana
    March 8, 2016
  12. Idaho
  13. Michigan
  14. Mississippi
    March 15, 2016
  15. Florida
  16. Missouri
  17. Ohio
  18. March 22, 2016 Arizona

Debates
#7 January 28, 2016 – Des Moines, Iowa
#8 February 6, 2016 – Goffstown, New Hampshire
#9 February 13, 2016 – Greenville, South Carolina
#10 February 25, 2016 – Houston, Texas
#11 March 2016 – TBA
#12 March 10, 2016 – Florida

All of the Caucuses are done by end of March. After that it is 17 primaries.
January 27th, 2016 at 1:33:35 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 706
Posts: 8143
So now Fox News after spending it's whole life bashing Democrats is being snubbed by the Republican front runner!

It's anybody's call who wins this Iowa Caucus for either party.
January 27th, 2016 at 2:22:48 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 35
Posts: 3009
Quote: Pacomartin
So now Fox News after spending it's whole life bashing Democrats is being snubbed by the Republican front runner!

It's anybody's call who wins this Iowa Caucus for either party.


On top of that a huge amount of money is at stake and that's why Foxnews is so upset
Megyn vs Trump 1st round was the highest rated debate ever
The smart thing for fox is to simply not respond to Trumps trolling remarks
All news organization get trolled. They ignore the trolls
Foxnews is unable to contain itself when Trump trolls them
They cant help it, they troll back
By trolling, they now become news

"We can’t give in to terrorizations toward any of our employees."
Megyn is being terrorized by Trump LOL

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/27/full-statement-on-trump-declining-to-participate-in-fox-newsgoogle-debate.html
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
January 27th, 2016 at 2:34:09 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 107
Posts: 11130
FOX was charging $750K a minute for ads
during the debate. With Trump gone,
they're set to lost over half the audience,
probably more, and ad revenue could go
down to $150K a minute.

By not going he's owning the media for
3 days. All I saw today was this story wall
to wall. The other candidates are on the
floor gasping for air. Regan shipped the
debate before IA and he won the election
in a landslide. I think it's brilliant move on
Trump's part. I can't stand that skank Megyn
Kelly either.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 27th, 2016 at 3:16:44 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 706
Posts: 8143
Quote: Evenbob
By not going he's owning the media for 3 days. All I saw today was this story wall to wall. The other candidates are on the floor gasping for air. Regan skipped the debate before IA and he won the election in a landslide.


Good point about RR skipping the debate. Really crushed him.


In other news Bloomberg has pledged to spend up to $1 Billion of his own money to run as an independent.