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Yet another aviation thread.
| October 19th, 2016 at 2:33:58 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
I'm wondering whether transatlantic is all that's practical given fuel needs.
I've read BA kept a Concorde parked in reserve at JFK, in case one of the daily flights failed for some reason. It makes sense, as placing Concorde passengers on subsonic flights would have been preposterous. But it also seems very wasteful. Charter customers naturally wanted the plane and the accompanying mythos as well, but they likely weren't frequent customers. So placing them on a subsonic jet in case of failure, with adequate refunds, sounds easier to do.
I wish them well, but I don't see how they can obtain certification. True, the plane has a long record, but what about maintenance and spare parts? Who'll provide them? That's the reason Ba and AF retired their fleets: no more spares and support from Airbus.
That could make the scheme work, along with regular flights. Keep in mind a number of supersonic executive jets have been proposed, but none have made it to market. Now, if some Middle Eastern or Chinese potentate were to order a custom Boom... Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| October 20th, 2016 at 9:24:47 AM permalink | |
| DRich Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 51 Posts: 4959 | A friend of mine is flying to Iowa and I asked her what airline she is taking. Her response was Air Choice One. I admit that I thought she was confused as I had never heard of it. It turns out that it is real. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Choice_One This is their fleet:  At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent. |
| October 20th, 2016 at 9:28:37 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Cool. There are a bunch of tiny airlines here and there, doing all sorts of thin routes, often short ones, or connecting small towns to big airports. Just yesterday I read about a Hawaiian airline servicing the great metropolis of Santa María, California, with small prop planes to LAX (though Allegiant apparently flies there as well). there's one with a small fleet of executive jets, but I forget where it flies or what it's called. The thing is they're regular scheduled flights, not charters. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| October 25th, 2016 at 7:58:33 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 | I've been thinking, instead of an all-business small/medium plane for transatlantic flights, how about an all-premium economy plane? By premium economy I mean a product like the one AA deployed on the new 787-9, or the one Singapore uses in its new A350-900. It's one less seat per row as compared to economy, with 38" or so pitch, more recline, a leg and foot rest, better meals and better IFE, all as compared to economy. On an A320/B737 the layout would be 2-2, or perhaps 3-2. Compared to an all-business plane, it would seat more people, albeit at lower fares. But perhaps it could make do with three FAs. The all-business class model has failed so consistently, that I quit thinking it is feasible. Singapore right now is using this product on the Singapore to SF flight (BTW, in Airbus' 10,00th plane), at a price point of 150% the regular economy price. This seems rather affordable, almost a no-brainier on long, long-haul flights. And perhaps a better option for business travelers on a tightish budget. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| October 25th, 2016 at 11:39:18 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
That is sort of the business model that Interjet uses; a configuration where everyone is more comfortable, but nobody is in luxury. The USA airlines don't seem to want to embrace that business model. I think they find it more profitable to treat some people extremely well and make them pay a fortune. American has only three rows of "premium economy" seats in the B787-9. Premium Economy 38 19 21 standard seats 3 rows 2-3-2 Main Cabin Extra 33+ 17+ 36 standard seats 3 rows 3-3-3 Economy 31 17+ 198 standard seats less leg room 3-3-3 |
| October 25th, 2016 at 11:56:26 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
I love Interjet, as I've said before, but all their model gives you is sufficient leg room. And I mean that's it. There's no meal, no in-flight entertainment to speak of, no blankets, no pillows, no footrest (I'd kill for a footrest on their flights). The free snack and beverage, the included generous checked luggage allowance is nice, great even in the case of luggage, but at heart it remains a low cost carrier. I'd call their seats economy comfort at best, or economy plus, or main cabin extra. The seat pitch, BTW, is 34", which in these times it's extravagant for economy (in the exit rows, it's virtually infinite). The next best option for economy in Mexico is AM, with 31". You'd think American travelers going to Mexico would flock to Interjet, given the complaints one hears about other airlines. No idea whether that is so. But I've a feeling they'd prefer Southwest, Spirit, Jet Blue or the legacy carriers. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| October 25th, 2016 at 2:17:47 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 | The point is to have a small plane that's different from the bulk of the transatlantic market, more comfortable, with a better experience, without charging the upper-class prices business class goes for. I guesstimate a load of 80-100 passengers per flight (assuming an A320), 4 FAs, and a cost of between 140%-160% percent of regular economy. For a 6+ hour flight, assume a nice, but simple, dinner after take off, and perhaps a light breakfast-type snack before arrival. One or two complimentary "adult" drinks per passenger as well. I think there's a market for this type of seat and service, but a very small one. It fills the gap between economy hell and business class luxury. Call it just Premium Class. Most people, I know, will still want the cheapest possible fare. There was a blog post in the Airline Reporter a few days back, illustrating (literally, with cartoons) the ULCC flying experience. It begins with "I scored the cheapest fare of all TIME!!" and ends with "I'm never flying this efffing airline ever AGAIN!!!" With a postscript of "Repeat." I get it AA has a section like this, but it's very small. No idea what the price is. Singapore has it priced at 150% economy, but that might be an introductory offer. So maybe my gut pricing is wholly unrealistic. I just think it's a neat idea. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| October 26th, 2016 at 7:09:56 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Yes, most Americans won't fly a Mexican airline other than Aeromexico. Interjet only flies to 9 US cities (LAX, Las Vegas, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Sanford (Orlando), Miami, Chicago, New York). About a third of international passengers to Mexico fly on the following one way routes
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| October 26th, 2016 at 7:14:31 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
The airlines other than low cost ones don't seem to want single class configurations (of any class). They seem much more comfortable with multiple classes. I think they feel that they can almost always fill the economy class and meet much of the basic costs. |
| October 26th, 2016 at 12:50:08 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
I thought it was because no matter how wasteful, there's always someone willing to pony up the extra money for premium seating. I just thought, considering how filled to capacity AM's flights to-from Cd. del Carmen are, would they dare to furnish a plane fro that run with more premium seating? I didn't think so, either. The one advantage of a single class, is you can seat waaaay forward and deplane earlier. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |