Yet another aviation thread.

Quote: DRich

Do you think the costs Spirit quote include those fees?

I had the same question, but I think they do. Airlines like to quote costs without fuel so that when you are looking over a five year period you can see their efficiency.

In any case, there are certain fixed costs so that the break even point for a short flight would necessary require more revenue per mile.

While it is very clear that you got a great rate, from the airlines perspective they are getting enough passengers to cover basic costs if they spend some money on food and booze. The handful of people who bought last minute tickets and/or rental cars and hotel rooms would provide the profit.

Quote: DRich

My assumption was that a big chunk of that $177 is going to the Passenger Facility Charge and the September 11th fee.

I thought Spirit listed the breakdown of the total fare, including "government's cut."

In any case, it's common practice to list a tax, excise fee and such as a cost if a business pays it to the government, even when it charges it whole to the customer.


The big question is: how common are these very low fares? I recall Interjet attempted something like Spirit's $9 fares years ago, but these were gimmick fares designed to draw attention. for one thing, they were incredibly rare, and limited to a few tickets per flight. This was long before unbundling became standard, and at a time when interjet charged no fees at all for any in-flight or flight-related service or item (snacks, drinks, bags, etc.) So there was no question of making up the difference in fees.

A better question, or observation, is that there are millions of people flying outside of the US. What are the trends like in Europe, Asia, Latin america, Canada, etc?

Quote: Nareed

What are the trends like in Europe, Asia, Latin america, Canada, etc?

As you probably know, Volaris states that number of air trips per capita in Mexico is lower than Chile, Colombia, Brazil and Peru however that may be because of poor roads and mountain terrain.

From 2012 to 2016 Mexico has increased domestic passengers from 28 to 42 million air passengers and international from 29 to 40 million. Volaris is running a campaign to convert passengers on the 80 million luxury and executive bus trips taken in Mexico in 2016 into air passengers. They have already taken delivery of 2 A320neos with 28 more on order and may reach 100 jets in a few years.

VivaAerobus has retired the last of their ancient B737 and has 20 A320 and 2 A320neos in their fleet. Interjet has over 50 Airbus jets and is planning to increase it's fleet of Sukhoi Superjet 100 from 22 to 40.

Aeromexico has 17 widebody aircraft and is planning for a fleet of 20 Dreamliners in a few years. They have added Amsterdam to Paris, Madris and London as a European destination, but they don't seem eager to return to Rome and Frankfurt. Asia seems of more interest to Aeromexico. Currently they serve Shanghai, Seoul, and Tokyo.

Quote: Nareed

I thought Spirit listed the breakdown of the total fare, including "government's cut."

In any case, it's common practice to list a tax, excise fee and such as a cost if a business pays it to the government, even when it charges it whole to the customer.

I thought so too but this one didn't break it down.



When I look at Southwest Airlines they show both Passenger Facility Fee of about $6 for Las Vegas and a September 11th fee of about $5. Assuming Spirit has the same costs that would be about half of each segment fee of $22.

Quote: DRich

I thought so too but this one didn't break it down.

Maybe they do it on the website only, and not for people who cheat them out fo the online payment fee by paying at the airport ;)

It looks as though they discounted the taxes.

Quote: DRich

I thought so too but this one didn't break it down..

It looks like your fares are $1 each way (4 people or $8).

Here is a newspaper articles from March 8, 2011 where Spirit was offering $1 fares on Tuesday and Wednesday where the taxes and fees brought the round trip to $39.40. You are paying $44.40 so the fees went up $5.
https://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/mar/08/spirit-airlines-offer-1/

My assumption is that they were hoping you would check bags, book seats or purchase overpriced drinks They charge $55 each way if you show up with a carry on bag.

Quote: Pacomartin

My assumption is that they were hoping you would check bags, book seats or purchase overpriced drinks They charge $55 each way if you show up with a carry on bag.

Absolutely. As Nareed also mentioned I avoided about $35 in fees per ticket by buying it at the airport instead of online. I'm sure most people are paying more than me and they are adding seats, bags, and incidentals. The Spirit model only works if they get incremental revenue.

Quote: DRich

Absolutely. As Nareed also mentioned I avoided about $35 in fees per ticket by buying it at the airport instead of online. I'm sure most people are paying more than me and they are adding seats, bags, and incidentals. The Spirit model only works if they get incremental revenue.

Average total operating revenue per available seat mile for spirit for a 265 mile trip is 9.11 cents * 115.3% * 265 = $27.84 where the percentage accounts for empty seats.

So yes, the $35 online fee would have more than made the average. Had you been only buying a single ticket, you probably wouldn't have bothered with the time and parking fee at the airport to pay in cash.

Quote: Pacomartin

So yes, the $35 online fee would have more than made the average. Had you been only buying a single ticket, you probably wouldn't have bothered with the time and parking fee at the airport to pay in cash.

That is definitely a possibility. I am fortunate that I only live about eight minutes from the airport ($2 to park), so on occasion I will drive over and buy a single ticket but I also have days where my inner laziness prevails.

Quote: Pacomartin

From 2012 to 2016 Mexico has increased domestic passengers from 28 to 42 million air passengers and international from 29 to 40 million.

I was thinking about unbundling, fees, etc.

Lots of articles and editorials on aviation make tons of references to deregulation, the Great Recession and oil prices. The last two affected everyone, but deregulation was entirely an American thing.

True, airlines from other countries had their fares to the US regulated (read about the KLM small ceramic houses in business class), and EU regulations are a topic in its own right. But its not as if competition is a new thing, or was a new thing in the Carter era.

Not too long ago, all Mexican airlines included complimentary bags, meals and snacks, and seat selection. That's no longer the case. Viva was a ULCC from birth, Volaris is adopting the ULCC model, Interjet is trying different fare bundles. Aeromexico has bundles, and now charges extra for some economy seats (typically those on exit rows and bulkhead).

We've discussed Ryanair at length here, and Spirit seems to be copying much of what it does. I know BA likes dense configurations, even in premium cabins.