Yet another aviation thread.

January 28th, 2016 at 7:29:40 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 744
Posts: 8747
Quote: Nareed
I believe at the time the "legacy" carriers still used wide bodies and the 757 as the main work horses for transcontinental travel. Using a 737 would have seemed at least quixotic.


Quote: Boeing Press Release Feb 9 1997
Boeing Next-Generation 737 Takes to the Skies: The airplane's range will be approximately 3,000 nautical miles (3,454 statute miles or 5,556 kilometers), an increase of up to 900 nautical miles over current-production 737s. This will allow U.S. transcontinental flights and increased 737 route capability throughout the world.


While the first next generation was delivered to Southwest in Dec 1997, there were over a thousand delivered to all customers by the time that Southwest began using them for transcontinental travel in 2002. So while your basic assessment may be correct that the 757 and 767 were the primary transcontinental aircraft, it couldn't have been unique to fly the 737 across the country.

The nonstop service between Baltimore/Washington and Los Angeles (sep 15, 2002) was Southwest’s longest flight with a distance of 2,329 miles replacing flight is between Providence and Phoenix with a distance of 2,277 miles. They ran an introductory fare of $99 each way.
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Norwegian now has prices from London to JFK on a Dreamliner that start at 470.80€ (where Taxes account for 179.60€). Checked baggage, Nice&Tasty menu and seat reservation, is 64€ extra. (Premium Flex tickets cost 1,599€ ) As Norwegian is a Low Cost Carrier, Premium Flex is short of Business class, and has 2-3-2 seating instead of 3-3-3 and has seats wider by less than 2", but an extra 14"-15" of leg room. (259 seats economy + 32 seats premium economy).

Norwegian’s Irish subsidiary, Norwegian Air International (NAI), will begin with a Boston service in May 2016 to Cork Ireland on a narrow bodied Boeing 737-800 configured to feature 146 economy and 12 business class seats. I can't seem to get this flight on the web site, so I don't know the price. It will be interesting to see if it more or less than the Dreamliner service.
January 29th, 2016 at 7:35:09 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 330
Posts: 11585
Quote: Pacomartin
So while your basic assessment may be correct that the 757 and 767 were the primary transcontinental aircraft, it couldn't have been unique to fly the 737 across the country.


Ok. Eccentric, then. What the little discount airlines with substandard service did.

Today Wide bodies in domestic routes are likely to sport a FedEx or UPS livery. The 757 has ceased production and the existing ones will be retired sooner or later. AA chose the A321 for transcon routes.

We keep coming back to having smaller, single aisle, narrow bodies taking over ever longer flights, which does much to degrade the flying experience in economy. Something needs to be done about it.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
January 29th, 2016 at 4:47:50 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 744
Posts: 8747
Quote: Nareed
We keep coming back to having smaller, single aisle, narrow bodies taking over ever longer flights, which does much to degrade the flying experience in economy. Something needs to be done about it.

Quote: Pacomartin
Norwegian’s Irish subsidiary, Norwegian Air International (NAI), will begin with a Boston service in May 2016 to Cork Ireland on a narrow bodied Boeing 737-800 configured to feature 146 economy and 12 business class seats. I can't seem to get this flight on the web site, so I don't know the price. It will be interesting to see if it more or less than the Dreamliner service.


WestJet began transatlantic flights between St. John’s and Dublin, which use its existing Boeing 737-700 planes, which seat 136 passengers. AFAIK, this is the first transAtlantic flight with a B737 that was not in some kind of luxury configuration. But the distance across the Atlantic is very short. The Norwegian flight from Boston to Cork is closer to a normal East Coast to Europe flight (but still on the short side).

3280 km, 2040 miles St Johns Arpt, St John S, NF (YYT) to Dublin Arpt, Dublin, IE (DUB)
4700 km, 2920 miles Logan Intl Arpt, Boston, MA (BOS) to Cork Arpt, Cork, IE (ORK)

We'll see shortly how expensive this flight will be, and if people complain.

But I see that there are several record holding commercial flights that are actually much longer.

RECORD HOLDING DISTANCES
Boeing 737-500 Jetliner Munich to Tyumen 3,641km 2,262miles UTair Aviation UT 724
Boeing 737-600 Jetliner Ottawa to Vancouver 3,562km 2,213miles WestJet WS 143
Boeing 737-700 Jetliner Montevideo to Panama City 5,446km 3,385miles Copa Airlines CM 284
Boeing 737-800 Jetliner Vancouver to Punta Cana 5,928km 3,684miles Sunwing Airlines WG 481
Boeing 737-900 Jetliner Boston to San Francisco 4,352km 2,704miles United Airlines Various
Boeing 737-700ER Jetliner Tokyo Narita to Mumbai 6,796km 4,223miles All Nippon Airways NH 829
Boeing 737-900ER Jetliner Istanbul-Atatürk to Dar es Salaam 5,404km 3,357miles Turkish Airlines TK 603

Boeing launched the 737-700ER (ER for extended range) on January 31, 2006. All Nippon Airways is the launch customer, with the first one of five 737-700ERs delivered on February 16, 2007. The 737-700ER is a mainline passenger version of the BBJ1 and 737-700IGW. It combines the 737-700 fuselage with the wings and landing gear of a 737-800. It offers a range of 5,510 nautical miles (10,200 km), with seating for 126 passengers in a traditional two-class configuration.

The 737-900ER (ER for extended range), is the newest addition and the largest variant of the Boeing 737 line and was introduced to meet the range and passenger capacity of the discontinued 757-200 and to directly compete with the Airbus A321. An additional pair of exit doors and a flat rear pressure bulkhead increased seating capacity to 180 passengers in a 2-class configuration or 220 passengers in a single-class layout. Additional fuel capacity and standard winglets improved range to that of other 737NG variants.
January 29th, 2016 at 6:37:14 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 330
Posts: 11585
Quote: Pacomartin
WestJet began transatlantic flights between St. John’s and Dublin, which use its existing Boeing 737-700 planes,


Aren't Norwegian and WestJet LCCs or ULCCs? You expect a bad passenger experience on "those discount airlines." On the big carriers you expect better. And a few airlines, like Interjet and Jet Blue, actually boast about the on-board experience.

The big carriers would love small planes for long routes. They could either serve "thin" routes or, and this is big, offer more frequencies for the more popular routes. A flotilla of 737s flying from NYC to London or Paris could offer three or four times as many flights as a bunch of 787s, let alone 737s.

It's coming. We may as well have a better small airplane.

Look, we hear about the lost leg room, free checked bags, in flight meals, etc. Your grandchildren may hear about the loss of wide bodies for crossing the Atlantic.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
January 30th, 2016 at 1:45:49 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 744
Posts: 8747
Quote: Nareed
Aren't Norwegian and WestJet LCCs or ULCCs? You expect a bad passenger experience on "those discount airlines." On the big carriers you expect better. And a few airlines, like Interjet and Jet Blue, actually boast about the on-board experience.

Look, we hear about the lost leg room, free checked bags, in flight meals, etc. Your grandchildren may hear about the loss of wide bodies for crossing the Atlantic.


The term Ultra Low-Cost Carrier is a term I've only heard applied to four airlines (1) Spirit Airlines and (2) Allegiant Air (3) Frontier Airlines, and (4)Vivaaerobus.com


The term LCC is pretty liberally used, and certainly Norwegian and Westjet are included. I wouldn't include JetBlue or Interjet, but you usually see them on lists. Southwest is a LCC because they are one class, but their service has more or less defined modern day economy class service,

United States
JetBlue
Southwest Airlines
Sun Country Airlines
Virgin America

Canada
Air Canada Rouge
Canada Jetlines
NewLeaf
Sunwing Airlines
WestJet

Mexico
Interjet
Volaris
February 2nd, 2016 at 6:45:40 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 330
Posts: 11585
Quote: Pacomartin
The term LCC is pretty liberally used, and certainly Norwegian and Westjet are included. I wouldn't include JetBlue or Interjet, but you usually see them on lists.


Interjet began promoting itself as a low-cost when it launched, with heavy emphasis on low fares. Since then fares have gone up, especially after Mexicana went kaput. In some listings it appears as a full service airline, too.

Fact is they have the exact same model, sans being based at Toluca, they had when they started out ten years ago. If anything they've expanded their ground side services, offering transportation to/from the airport at various destinations now, rather than just the shuttle to Toluca. At MEX they also offer parking at a slightly lower rate than the airport's garages.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
February 2nd, 2016 at 7:31:28 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 18
Posts: 786
Can anyone think of the make and model of a midsize commuter jet that was a a high wing, or over wing, design where the cabin was under the wings? I believe the one I am thinking of was a twin jet but it may have been four engines. I remember I used to take it between Chicago and Cedar Rapids Iowa in the mid 1980's.

I'm surprised I can;t remember it because it was one of my favorite aircraft.
February 2nd, 2016 at 7:44:32 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 18
Posts: 786
Quote: DRich
Can anyone think of the make and model of a midsize commuter jet that was a a high wing, or over wing, design where the cabin was under the wings? I believe the one I am thinking of was a twin jet but it may have been four engines. I remember I used to take it between Chicago and Cedar Rapids Iowa in the mid 1980's.

I'm surprised I can;t remember it because it was one of my favorite aircraft.


Nevermind, I found it. It was the BAE-146

February 3rd, 2016 at 6:51:23 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 330
Posts: 11585
Quote: DRich
Nevermind, I found it. It was the BAE-146


I recall seeing a few long ago. It's a really unconventional design. I imagine the engines were louder in the cabin given their placement, and they'd definitively obstruct the view. I also wonder why such a small craft needs four engines. Perhaps it started out as a cargo plane?

As I recall, high wings on jets were never very popular outside military designs (see the C-5 and C-17 cargo planes). No doubt there are other exceptions.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
February 3rd, 2016 at 8:19:00 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 1936
Quote: Nareed
I recall seeing a few long ago. It's a really unconventional design. I imagine the engines were louder in the cabin given their placement, and they'd definitively obstruct the view. I also wonder why such a small craft needs four engines. Perhaps it started out as a cargo plane?

As I recall, high wings on jets were never very popular outside military designs (see the C-5 and C-17 cargo planes). No doubt there are other exceptions.


I believe it was designed with four engines because of noise.

Four, less powerful engines are quieter than 2 more powerful engines.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan