Yet another aviation thread.

For a long time there was quite a difference between the two airports. At one any pilot landing would be greeted by well armed Military Police who definitely would not be smiling.

Interesting piece: https://skift.com/2017/11/22/airline-food-conundrum-paid-meals-winning-out-over-freebies/

This in particular: "Skift: Let’s say you’re a premium airline, and you’re feeding your business class passengers on a long-haul flights. What are you spending per customer?
De Hauw: It’s not a lot compared to the price of a business class ticket. Depending on the airline, and the number of stars they have with [the ranking agency] Skytrax, it’s about $25 for food and equipment — the china, the cutlery, the glass, the napkin, the pepper and the salt, the tray."

It's frustrating to get a datum like this. Doe she mean the cost for the catering company or for the airline? If it's the former, then you figure the airline pays about $36 for it, and sells it to the passengers for at least $45.

Still, we can tell the meals on business class have a minimal impact on cost.

Ryanair continues its mission to utterly ruin air travel.

Now they're reprimanding flight attendants for not selling enough liquor, perfume and scratch cards.

Shopping on board is old (remember the Sky Mall catalogs?), but it has usually been a sideline for most airlines (Korean has a duty-free shop on their A380s, really), including such things as credit card offers. For Ryanair, it seems to be a lot more important.

It's unsurprising, really. Fees were a sideline for airlines, until the ULCCs began making more money off them than from fares. Now the major full service carriers make tons of money off fees. perhaps not more than from fares, given fee waivers for elites, premium passengers and such, but it's quite relevant.

I don't know about you, but I don't fly in order to shop overpriced items or to play the lottery. And often I make use of the time spent flying to rest (especially in early morning flights), work, read or write. I don't want that interrupted by sales associates posing as cabin crew hawking their wares.

Here's two questions:

1) Do you always pick the lowest fare possible?(*)
2) IF you answered "yes" in 1) , the question is: Why?

(*) This assumes a choice of fares and dates. Don't consider last-minute business trips, when fares and dates are not flexible.

I'm asking because the preference for the lowest fare is cited as the No. 1 (if not the only) reason for the downgrade of travel. I want to see how true it is.

For my part, yes, I always pick the lowest fare. But this includes as many fees as I can think of beforehand, not the "bare fare." Thus for example, I flew Interjet to Vegas the last three times, because including fees (at the time Interjet had none) as well as transportation to Toluca airport, it was cheaper. Volaris had a cheaper base fare. But adding the fees for a second bag and seat selection, plus transportation to MEX(**), it was a bit more money.

(**) If taking my car isn't an option, as when I'd be away for over 2 weeks, I can get to TLC cheaper than to MEX. the reason is that at MEX you're limited to airport cabs, which are quite expensive.

Quote: Nareed

1) Do you always pick the lowest fare possible?(*)
2) IF you answered "yes" in 1) , the question is: Why?

America is very different than Mexico. In Mexico you often have three choices for nonstop routes (especially from Mexico City). In America you almost never have a choice of airlines for nonstop routes.

So often the choice is drive 3 miles up north and 50 miles in Florida or drive 75 miles up north and drive 5-10 miles in Florida.

Allegiant Airlines serves an airport 3 miles from me which flies to four locations in Florida. Besides that there are only regional airlines serving the hub airports ATL, ORD, PHL, CLT, DET. To get a wider selection of flights I must drive 75 miles to Newark Airport.


Transatlantic Travel is different than domestic travel. The busiest airlines are by far and away the least fuel efficient as they have the most premium seating.

The three least-efficient airlines (Lufthansa, SAS, and British Airways) were collectively responsible for one-fifth of transatlantic available seat kilometers and burned 44%-51% more fuel per passenger kilometer than the most efficient, Norwegian Air Shuttle.

A nonstop round-trip transatlantic flight averaged about one tonne of CO2 emissions per passenger, equivalent to emissions from a 35-kilometer daily commute in a Toyota Prius over a work year.

42 pax-km/L = 98.79 pax-mpg
27 pax-km/L = 63.51 pax-mpg

Fuel efficiency and carbon dioxide emissions for nonstop, round-trip itinerary, top 20 airlines’ most prevalent routes, 2014

Rank Airport pair pax-km/L kg CO2 per round-trip itinerary Airline
1 JFK & OSL 42 720 Norwegian
2 DUS & JFK 36 840 Air Berlin
2 AMS & JFK 36 830 KLM
2 DUB & JFK 36 720 Aer Lingus
5 JFK & SVO 35 1100 Aerflot
6 IST & JFK 34 1200 Turkish Airlines
6 AMS & DTW 34 1000 Delta
8 LHR & YYZ 33 870 Air Canada
9 BOS & KEF 32 620 Icelandair
9 JFK & MAD 32 920 Iberia
9 CDG & JFK 32 930 Air France
12 FCO & JFK 31 1100 Alitalia
12 JFK & ZRH 31 1000 Swiss
14 CLT & FRA 30 1200 USAirways
14 CPH & EWR 30 1000 SAS
16 LHR & ORD 29 1100 American Airlines
17 JFK & LHR 28 1000 Virgin Atlantic
17 LHR & EWR 28 1000 United
19 FRA & JFK 27 1200 Lufthansa
19 LHR & JFK 27 1100 British Airways

As this table is dated, it does not include Norwegian's new ultra cramped single aisle flights which would probably operate at around 46 pax-km/L

Quote: Pacomartin

America is very different than Mexico. In Mexico you often have three choices for nonstop routes (especially from Mexico City). In America you almost never have a choice of airlines for nonstop routes.

Yes, but the success of first the low cost model and then the ultra-low cost one, argues people here are fare sensitive as well.

As I said, the drive towards the lowest fare is the justification for fees, smaller seats, less legroom, buy on board meals, etc. I want to see how prevalent this is.

Quote: Nareed

Here's two questions:

1) Do you always pick the lowest fare possible?(*)
2) IF you answered "yes" in 1) , the question is: Why?

1) I usually do pick the cheapest after accounting for all fees and services that I will be using.
2) Because I am cheap.

1) Price is only one of the considerations when I am choosing my flight.

2) I can fly anywhere in the world from my small town that I want as long as I go to YVR first :-) I usually end up driving to Vancouver since the flights to there are much more than the cost of driving. I can get cheap flights out of Bellingham which is actually a little closer than YVR but I just don't like Allegiant or the Bellingham airport. The other consideration for me is if it is a winter trip is how likely my connection airports are to have weather issues. We are often travelling in mid January and I won't connect through any place in Canada. New York and Chicago are also off my list.

Having said all of the above I do book the cheapest flight that meets my criteria.

Quote: DRich

1) I usually do pick the cheapest after accounting for all fees and services that I will be using.

That's good. I have a feeling too many people overpay because they pick the lowest fare but don't consider additional fees.

Quote:

2) Because I am cheap.

You said it. Not me :)

But let me ask, when buying, say, cooking oil or coffee, do you always pick the cheapest one?

Quote: kenarman

1) Price is only one of the considerations when I am choosing my flight.

2) I can fly anywhere in the world from my small town that I want as long as I go to YVR first :-) I usually end up driving to Vancouver since the flights to there are much more than the cost of driving. I can get cheap flights out of Bellingham which is actually a little closer than YVR but I just don't like Allegiant or the Bellingham airport. The other consideration for me is if it is a winter trip is how likely my connection airports are to have weather issues. We are often travelling in mid January and I won't connect through any place in Canada. New York and Chicago are also off my list.

Having said all of the above I do book the cheapest flight that meets my criteria.

I book tons of business travel, mostly international
I would estimate that only 1/2 of my clients use price to determine what flights they take
1/2 of my road warriors generally have a huge loyalty to an airline and take that airline every time regardless of price
Its all about comfort due to getting upgraded because of status or miles