Yet another aviation thread.

Quote: Nareed

I read it as "Emirates blinked"

They also have 190 Boeing twin aisles on order (B777 and largest B787). I would expect a major expansion of 5th freedom flights to take over largest TransAtlantic Routes. Right now they are just flying Milan MXP to JFK and Athens to JFK.

Do you realize that not a single airline from Continental Europe flies to Australia? Since a fuel stop is mandatory, all European airlines have chosen to give up the routes rather than compete with the Middle Eastern giants.

Most analysts feel that if it wasn't for their sense of history and the ability to claim flights to all seven continents, that British Airways would give up the route as well.

Quote: Pacomartin

Do you realize that not a single airline from Continental Europe flies to Australia? Since a fuel stop is mandatory, all European airlines have chosen to give up the routes rather than compete with the Middle Eastern giants.

I've no doubt within 20 years you'll be able to fly nonstop London to Sidney in only 22 hours in a narrow body.

All of the majors use those hubs:

UA - ORD,
WN - MDW
DL - DTW, MSP
AA - DFW, ORD

JetBlue needs a Midwest hub.

Quote: Nareed

I've no doubt within 20 years you'll be able to fly nonstop London to Sidney in only 22 hours in a narrow body.

Airbus announced their long range narrow body and wide body aircraft versions in 2015. The narrow body which can go 4000 nm has a 97 tonnes Maximum Take Off Weight (MTOW). The widebody has a 280 tonnes Maximum Take Off Weight (MTOW). The ultra long range widebody carries 4X as much fuel as the ultra long range narrowbody and has an advertised range of at least 8,700 nm.

That seems like an impossible gap to close in 20 years (or even 50 years).



Airbus launches A321neo with true transatlantic capability 13 January 2015
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2015/01/airbus-launches-a321neo-with-true-transatlantic-capability.html
Airbus has officially launched the A321neo with 97 tonnes Maximum Take Off Weight (MTOW). The A321neo 97t will be able to fly 206 passengers on longer routes of up to 4,000 nm in a comfortable two-class layout.

We should note that the B757-200 had its first commercial on January 1, 1983. That aircraft had a range only 85 nm short of 4,000 nm. It had a MTOW of 115.660 tonnes and two class seating of 200 passengers. So this new aircraft is basically recreating performance capability of a narrow body that is over 35 years old.


Airbus launches new Ultra-Long Range version of the A350-900 13 October 2015
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2015/10/airbus-launches-new-ultra-long-range-version-of-the-a350-900.html
The A350-900ULR incorporates a number of necessary changes over the standard A350-900. These include a higher capacity fuel system within the existing fuel tanks, increasing fuel carrying capacity from 141,000 litres to 165,000 litres. The A350-900ULR has an MTOW of 280 tonnes. Representing a distance of some 8,700 nautical miles, the New York service will be the world’s longest commercial passenger route, with an expected flight time of up to 19 hours.

Quote: Pacomartin

Do you realize that not a single airline from Continental Europe flies to Australia? Since a fuel stop is mandatory, all European airlines have chosen to give up the routes rather than compete with the Middle Eastern giants.

Most analysts feel that if it wasn't for their sense of history and the ability to claim flights to all seven continents, that British Airways would give up the route as well.

Regarding Australia
Virgin Australia is really growing.
Had a client that needed business class from HSV to PER roundtrip
VA partners with Delta and the price and times worked out great.
Delta to the west coast to change to Virgin Australia

Quote: terapined

Regarding Australia- Virgin Australia is really growing.

Virgin Australia has five Boeing 777-300ERs in their fleet. They use them to fly to LAX and to the middle east (Abu Dhabi) where they have a code share with Etihad to Europe.

At one point most of the European airlines had flights to Australia using different airports to refuel. Nonstops are out of the question (although Qantas is starting their Perth to London nonstop soon).

I see the potential for a situation happening like cruise ships where they are all foreign flagged.

The four USA airlines (DL,UA,AA, Hawaiian) are only operating 500 twin aisle jets and many are growing old
Count - (average age in years) - Model
163 ( 20.3 ) Boeing 767
173 ( 14.4 ) Boeing 777
68 ( 2.3 ) Boeing 787
90 ( 8.6 ) Airbus A330
6 ( 0.3 ) Airbus A350
500

Emirates , Etihad and Qatar are operating 500 twin aisle jets and most of them are much bigger and much newer.

Quote: Pacomartin

That seems like an impossible gap to close in 20 years (or even 50 years).

I didn't say how big a narrow body ;)

I agree a narrow body probably will never have such a range. But ti would fit the current model of making the passenger experience as painful as possible.

On other A380 news, BA may place an order for some.

They already operate the type, and were said to be looking to acquire used ones as airlines retired them.

So why are they not snapping Singapore's, or relieving Malaysia of theirs? apparently it would be more expensive to modify existing frames than getting new ones.

More important, the reason cited for increasing BA's A380 fleet is "slot restrictions at Heathrow."

Quote: Nareed

On other A380 news, BA may place an order for some.

BA has been talking about acquiring a few more for some time. They have no interest in flying them to JFK. As Virgin Atlantic has been delaying their delivery date for more than a decade, perhaps BA could buy those deliveries from them to let VA off the hook contractually. I am sure that VA would owe Airbus some money to Airbus if they cancel the order forever.

DELIVERED
14 LUFTHANSA GERMANY
12 BRITISH AIRWAYS UNITED KINGDOM
10 AIR FRANCE FRANCE
ORDERS ONLY
6 VIRGIN ATLANTIC UNITED KINGDOM
20 AMEDEO IRELAND (contingency sale: only if they can find an airline to lease them)

British Airways flies their 12 A380s From & To London to 9 destinations
Vancouver
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Boston
Miami
Washington
Hong Kong
Singapore
Johannesburg

Flying over 5000 miles from LAX to London on BA usually involves large planes
4:35pm - 11:00am Boeing 747-400 (275 seats)
5:25pm - 12:05pm BOEING 777-300ER operated by American Airlines (304 seats)
6:05pm - 12:35pm BOEING 787-9 (216 seats)
9:05pm - 03:25pm Airbus Industrie A380-800 (469 seats)

Quote: Pacomartin

BA has been talking about acquiring a few more for some time.

I find it interesting they are citing slot restrictions at LHR, and that the reports leaked after the Emirates order.

BA is currently the largest operator pf passenger 747s, all 747-400 variants. They've not placed any orders for the 747-8, so I'm guessing at least some will be replaced with A380s.

Quote:

They have no interest in flying them to JFK. As Virgin Atlantic has been delaying their delivery date for more than a decade, perhaps BA could buy those deliveries from them to let VA off the hook contractually. I am sure that VA would owe Airbus some money to Airbus if they cancel the order forever.

Me, I'd place my orders, if any, and let VA owe Airbus money. Why help out a competitor?

Of course, if they were to give me,s ay 95% of what they'd owe Airbus, I might be willing to put in a good word for them.