Yet another aviation thread.

April 20th, 2018 at 10:05:34 AM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 6
Posts: 1600
Quote: Fleastiff
We would prefer "uncontained engine failure" or even better "uncontained compressor fan failure", "failure of structural integrity" and "explosive decompression" etc.

CPR on plane and defribilator on ground.

Debris may indeed have traveled thru both outer and inner shells and struck her. With all those oxygen masks did someone inhale and then place it over her?

AP:Southwest has about 700 planes, all of them 737s, including more than 500 737-700s


Not sure how long her upper body was out the window, but another passenger said it was 5 minutes before they got to breathable air. ATC showed 22 minutes post-explosion to landing.

She may have asphyxiated. Seems more likely shrapnel killed her. Could also have been impaled on shards from the window driven into her as she was sucked out. I'm guessing the pathologist will figure it out.

At least she didn't get sucked through the fan blades and turned to hamburger. Saw a ramp rat post- engine suckage once. Not a good way to go. They didn't realize when the first big 737s (think it was a -300) how much of a caution zone they needed in front of those engines, hung under the wing to nearly the ground.

If you get on an airplane in a jetway/gate designed for those big engines (several airframes have them now), they have big red striped zones painted on the tarmac, well in front of the engines. Now, that is.
Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has
April 20th, 2018 at 2:08:31 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
News report I saw said she died of blunt impact trauma to the head, neck, and upper body. also "An individual familiar with the investigation said it is likely Riordan’s neck broke from the force of the airplane’s speed when her head was pulled outside."

She was seatbelted when she was pulled partially through the window.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/southwest-passenger-who-died-following-explosion-was-sucked-halfway-outside-the-plane/2018/04/19/277956fe-43eb-11e8-bba2-0976a82b05a2_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d1d95b0ec80a
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
April 20th, 2018 at 2:37:39 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
I'm guessing the unfortunate passenger remained seated, but her upper body was sucked out of the airplane.

That's a really bad way to go.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 20th, 2018 at 5:56:34 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Nareed
It's also the second "uncontained engine failure" on a Southwest 737 in a short interval.


27 August, 2016 failure


The previous uncontained engine failure was about 20 months ago. They landed about 20 minutes later (as opposed to 17 minutes later this time) and there were no injuries.

From the photos it had the potential to be just as bad as this time. According to flightradar24 the previous plane last flew out of La Guardia on 18 April (the same airport as the 17 April incident) had three flights on 19 April cancelled . They must have spent the day inspecting the plane.

Quote: NTSB Identification: DCA16FA217

Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of Southwest Airlines
Accident occurred Saturday, August 27, 2016 in Pensacola, FL
Aircraft: BOEING 737-700, registration: N766SW
Injuries: 104 Uninjured.

On August 27, 2016, about 0930 central daylight time, a Boeing 737-700, N766SW, operating as Southwest Airlines flight 3472, experienced an uncontained engine failure and cabin depressurization while climbing through flight level 310. None of the 99 passengers and 5 crewmembers onboard were injured and the airplane sustained substantial damage. The flight crew declared an emergency and diverted to Pensacola International Airport (PNS), Pensacola, Florida. The regularly scheduled passenger flight was operating under 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 121 from Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport (MSY), New Orleans, Louisiana, to Orlando International Airport (MCO), Orlando, Florida.
https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20160827X31134&key=1


17 April 2018 failure
April 23rd, 2018 at 8:15:32 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Southwest airframe N772SW was in the latest uncontained engine failure.

It is possible to make a table of the aircraft flown by an airline ranked by age since delivery to Southwest, if the plane was bought used, and if it has been in an incident and line number for production line.

While such a table can easily be misinterpreted by a passenger to draw conclusions about safety, do you think the FAA is still responsible to make such information available? Do you have the right to know if your plane was in an incident previously and not written off, but put back in service?
April 23rd, 2018 at 8:41:11 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Pacomartin
While such a table can easily be misinterpreted by a passenger to draw conclusions about safety, do you think the FAA is still responsible to make such information available? Do you have the right to know if your plane was in an incident previously and not written off, but put back in service?


It depends in the kind of incident and the damage sustained. After all, aircraft are large capital investments, and airlines are reluctant to write them off.

Actually a blown engine wouldn't concern me much, save that the engine be brought back into service. I'd be more concerned about structural damage to the airframe, like that unfortunate JAL 747 with the tail strike.

Older airplanes are safe, provided they're well-maintained. The problem is they' also tend to cost more to maintain, as more things go wrong with them. And that's when some airlines may cut corners.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 23rd, 2018 at 11:47:57 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Nareed
It depends in the kind of incident and the damage sustained. After all, aircraft are large capital investments, and airlines are reluctant to write them off.


Of course, an airline is not going to write off a plane even if someone died.

I am not saying your average passenger will behave rationally, but do they have the right to know if their plane was in a previous accident?


Note that Southwest pulled this plane out of active service for 24 hours after the latest incident. I think that is a reasonable behavior, but does the public have the right to know?

We had an incident where some gas lines that were about a hundred years old ruptured incinerating two houses completely and killed all the occupants including a young girl and a baby. The gas company replied that they were slowly replacing all the old lines and would be completed in a decade, but they refused to release a map showing where the old lines were located.




All I am saying is that information is information. Southwest buys old B737s from airlines that go bankrupt, like Braathens in Norway, Maersk Air in Denmark, and Líneas Aéreas Privadas in Argentina. Some of these planes may have been flown by 2nd or 3rd airlines as well. In the case of 3 B737-700s Alaska Air retired part of their fleet in favor of newer larger variants of the B737s, and Southwest bought the old ones. Just because the plane had 2 or 5 owners does not in and of itself say how well it has been maintained, but it is certainly something you would want to know about a used car in addition to how many accidents it has been involved in. Is a passenger entitled to know that information about a plane on which he is riding?
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:44:43 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Pacomartin
Is a passenger entitled to know that information about a plane on which he is riding?


In principle I'd say yes.

In practice, though, I have a question: when?

i know airline schedules are set far in advance, but are specific planes assigned to specific flights weeks or months from now, or are the assignments done nearer the flight date, or even the day a flight is scheduled?

Experienced fliers know about equipment changes. I've had several, and I don't fly that much. IF airplane A is assigned to cover routing X six months from now, three's no guarantee it won't break down, be in an accident, or be delayed to the point of cancellation then.

So you buy a ticket today to fly in two weeks, and you're told your plane has had such and such issues, incidents and accidents. How certain is you'll fly that plane? the gas line example would work, because pipes aren't moved around after they're laid down. Would you want to receive alerts if the plane changes? How about you expected a plane with a near-spotless record, but instead on flight day find out it had a mechanical problem and you'll instead be riding one with issues?
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 24th, 2018 at 8:22:49 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
Equipment and crew changes can always be last minute affairs. What are you going to do, notify the passengers of when the coffee pot was last tested and the throttle cable last replaced?

Existence of maintenance checks is bad enough but quality of them? If the passengers don't care enough about quality when buying their tickets what is going to change when they get a ream of printouts on a plane's history?

Sleeping pods in cargo bays are now being proposed and fairly soon I think airlines will be passenger only transport.

Food Service will be kiosks at airports AND kiosks on board the planes.
April 24th, 2018 at 9:07:56 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Fleastiff
If the passengers don't care enough about quality when buying their tickets what is going to change when they get a ream of printouts on a plane's history?

You have a tendency to take everything to an extreme.

I don't mean reams of printouts on maintenance records. Just some simple comments like age of the plane, previous owners, and if it has been in a serious incident.

A Boeing 737-700 has had 1,128 orders with 2 unfilled and was first delivered on February 9, 1997. Southwest Airlines is currently operating 512 of this model.