Did you ever notice?

November 15th, 2015 at 11:13:50 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
The evidence is hiding in plain sight,


Hiding is the key word here. That's
why there are 3000 (and counting)
brands of Christianity, the 'evidence'
is about as clear as a muddy river.
Any evidence you think you have
would be not allowed in any court
in the land, it's hearsay nonsense.

You have a deep and personal
relationship with a figment of your
imagination. There are many people
who have imaginary friends, humans
have a propensity towards self delusion.
For every Christian who eventually
became an atheist, they all say the first
thing they had to do was realize they
were praying to themselves, there
was nobody on the other end listening.

Maybe you'll get there, I'm not holding
my breath. You seem to revel in the
position of power you think your imaginary
god has put you in, I doubt you would ever
give that delusion up for the light of truth
to shine on you. Oh well, there's always the
next incarnation. At least time and reason has
taken all the power of the Church away
and they can no longer do evil acts and
claim it's the will of some god.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 15th, 2015 at 2:11:32 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob

Any evidence you think you have
would be not allowed in any court
in the land, it's hearsay nonsense.


You keep saying this but witness testimony is a big part of any evidence as is historical fact and logical arguments used to explain how and why something happened.

Quote:
You have a deep and personal
relationship with a figment of your
imagination.


Your comment is as ignorant and insulting as it is egotistical. Do you think I don't know the difference between my imagination and the living true God? I realize you must not have an experience of the life giving real love of our Heavenly Father and I'm sorry about that, I really am, but please don't assume I am an idiot.


Quote:
You seem to revel in the
position of power you think your imaginary
god has put you in, I doubt you would ever
give that delusion up for the light of truth
to shine on you.


I would like you to explain what power you think I have. I am a servant of God and His people. I make next to nothing and more and more looked down upon by the world yet I am radically committed to the truth. If someone could offer proof or evidence for the non existence of God and His Son Jesus Christ to counter the logic, reason, evidence, and experience I know I have of my Savior I would obey the truth, how could I not. However, the truth is the truth and while you shut your eyes to it mine are wide open. You sir, are the deluded one.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
November 15th, 2015 at 2:57:11 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
You keep saying this but witness testimony is a big part of any evidence


Actually, eye witness testimony is worst
evidence possible. And the gospels were
second or third hand accounts, they
aren't reliable at all and even contradict
each other sometimes. Even seeing something
is person isn't reliable evidence.

'extensive scientific research — which we reviewed while co-chairing the National Research Council committee that wrote the recent report “Identifying the Culprit: Assessing Eyewitness Identification” — have identified a number of factors that can lead an eyewitness to make a mistake.'



Quote:
Do you think I don't know the difference between my imagination and the living true God?


I absolutely positively think you are a self
deluded person. No evidence for any god
exists, what else could you be.

Quote:
I would like you to explain what power you think I have.


You have the power to keep others deluded
and from seeing the truth. You feed their
delusions with promises you can't keep and
have no right to make.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 15th, 2015 at 3:17:49 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely you have received, freely give.

commentary from http://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/10-8.htm

(8) Raise the dead.—The words are omitted by the best MSS., and their absence is more in accordance with the facts of the Gospel history, which records no instance of that highest form of miracle as wrought by the disciples during our Lord’s ministry. That was reserved for His own immediate act. The insertion of the words was probably due to a wish to make the command cover such instances of power as that shown in the instances of Dorcas (Acts 9:40) and Eutychus (Acts 20:9-12).

clear evidence of ret-con (retroactive continuity) of an earlier book from a later book,

so either he didn't say it, or he did and people don't do it anymore (because they can't and never could, of course)

lots of other examples out there of the bible being written much after the fact, to fit prophesies, etc.

so now we have 10 real resurrections, and still no proof of any of them, no corroboration outside of the bible itself, which was written much after the fact and revised for centuries.

for me its credibility as proof of supernatural events is zero.

people believing something for a long time in the face of persecution is also not proof that what they believe is true.

the fact that people can be brought back from death now, due to medical science, is not proof that at any point in history or the present that god is directly or indirectly responsible.

I searched and searched, and couldn't find anyone who offered any corroboration for the resurrections in the bible. most people seem to be most concerned wit h the resurrection of Jesus, of course, and the rest of them just get kinda brushed under the rug with a shrug and an "it happened"

Why aren't priests out there right now raising the dead? they clearly have the mandate, and the evidence that the apostles and others did it is right there in the bible, if you believe it. they certainly didn't have the current knowledge of medical science required to bring people back from over the brink of death, so by the logic of the bible it must be a miracle, and it must be a power granted by god or passed through the person on behalf of god. Why doesn't it happen now?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
November 15th, 2015 at 4:06:21 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Dalex64

for me its credibility as proof of supernatural events is zero.

people believing something for a long time in the face of persecution is also not proof that what they believe is true.


It is not proof, but if people are willing to die for something and if those closest to the events did not doubt it I think you are being quite foolish to put the credibility at zero.


Quote:
Why aren't priests out there right now raising the dead? they clearly have the mandate, and the evidence that the apostles and others did it is right there in the bible, if you believe it. they certainly didn't have the current knowledge of medical science required to bring people back from over the brink of death, so by the logic of the bible it must be a miracle, and it must be a power granted by god or passed through the person on behalf of god. Why doesn't it happen now?


As I have mentioned before the spiritual rising from the dead happens all the time and I imagine has a greater importance than the bodily resurrection of people today. Our bodies now a days are well taken care of, our souls on the other hand, are often in need of emergency care.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
November 15th, 2015 at 5:09:16 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
It is not proof, but if people are willing to die for something
.


Throughout history people have been willing
to die for the stupidest reasons imaginable.
It only goes to prove how colossally ignorant
people can be.

Quote:
As I have mentioned before the spiritual rising from the dead happens all the time


This is beneath you, quit saying it. It's a
ridiculous statement. If you rescue somebody
who's depressed for whatever reason, it's
your friendship that helped him, not
outside forces that 'saved' him.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 15th, 2015 at 5:36:25 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
Throughout history people have been willing
to die for the stupidest reasons imaginable.
It only goes to prove how colossally ignorant
people can be.


Besides you proving that Original Sin exists, I think you are wrong. There are some people colossally ignorant, that is for sure, but not some of the amazing men and women who were martyrs of the Church.



Quote:
This is beneath you, quit saying it. It's a
ridiculous statement. If you rescue somebody
who's depressed for whatever reason, it's
your friendship that helped him, not
outside forces that 'saved' him.


I'm not talking about depression, I'm talking about people burdened by past mistakes and sins. People who feel hopeless and unloved or unlovable. I'm talking about those who suffer injustice and need a voice and assistance.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
November 15th, 2015 at 5:40:55 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
It is not proof, but if people are willing to die for something and if those closest to the events did not doubt it I think you are being quite foolish to put the credibility at zero.

As I have mentioned before the spiritual rising from the dead happens all the time and I imagine has a greater importance than the bodily resurrection of people today. Our bodies now a days are well taken care of, our souls on the other hand, are often in need of emergency care.


being willing to die for something does not make it true, and it does not make it right. look at what happened in Paris, what the deeply religious are willing to do for their cause.

Again, I'm not talking about spiritual rebirth. I am talking about physical resurrection. Like the examples in the bible. I'm sure that would be very important to the families of the people restored to life, and to the people themselves.

So, why isn't it done anymore?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
November 15th, 2015 at 5:50:08 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble

I'm not talking about depression, I'm talking about people burdened by past mistakes


People respond to friendship, not
spiritual voodoo nonsense. What
a pain it must to constantly delude
yourself about everything, just to
prop up your flimsy belief system.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 15th, 2015 at 5:52:16 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Dalex64

Why aren't priests out there right now raising the dead?


Why aren't they doing any of the
things Jesus promised they could
do. It's poppycock, that's why.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.