Terrible, horrible attack in Paris

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November 14th, 2015 at 3:59:51 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 37
Posts: 3087
Quote: Nareed
I find it amazing that there's not yet word on who the terrorists were, how they're network was built, how it was financed, who gave the order, but the bigots are already pointing the finger at the refugees who were trying to get away from terrorists like these in their own lands.


At least one was from France.
The Father and brother are in custody being questioned

http://news.yahoo.com/father-brother-one-paris-suicide-attackers-placed-custody-222839001.html

This could have been so much worse. One bomber had tickets to the soccer game but was caught by security as he tried to enter

http://www.wsj.com/articles/attacker-tried-to-enter-paris-stadium-but-was-turned-away-1447520571
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
November 14th, 2015 at 5:07:39 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 141
Posts: 3110
It is times like these when it is easy to say things like "Let's deport every Muslim and nuke all land controlled by ISIS." You won't hear me reacting out of emotion at such times.

Maybe this is easy to say in retrospect, but I wish we had never had any kind of military presence in any Muslim country. If they don't like the dictator in control -- fine, have a civil war, but don't come crying to us if you find yourself on the losing side. In fact, I think dictators get too much of a bad wrap. If the alternative is chaos and civil war, I'll take the dictator.

Of course, it is easy to be a Monday Morning quarterback. What to do now? I say bring in the drones and on-the-ground spotters. I wouldn't stand in Russia's way either. This is war and there are going to be casualties. If we're doing Bashar al Assad's bidding, so be it. I'll take him over ISIS any day.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
November 14th, 2015 at 5:52:47 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 49
Posts: 4655
Watch Canadian Vice for their battle with RCMP trying to keep them silent for 30 days on what was essentially a French police request.
November 14th, 2015 at 6:41:08 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 720
Posts: 8379
Quote: Wizard
If the alternative is chaos and civil war, I'll take the dictator.


It isn't such a strange emotion. Too a lot of people they prefer order and are perfectly willing to accept some loss of some civil rights. Porfirio Diaz was greatly admired by many people (inside and outside of the nation) in his 35 years of control over Mexico. And everyone knows the famous comment about Mussolini and the train schedule.

It's interesting to me how few candidates from either party have any military experience. Voters must now consider the increasing prospect that the next president may preside over a war. Candidates who are perceived as the most oriented towards social programs (Ben Carson, and Bernie Sanders) may start slipping in the polls. Hillary may not match people's idea of a commander in chief in a time of war.

Jim Webb, who has served as Secretary of the Navy, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs, Counsel for the United States House Committee on Veterans' Affairs and Marine Corps officer after his military service, did not raise much attention in his 16 weeks of running for Democratic candidate, but it has been only 25 days since he ended his campaign. During this time he is rumored to be considering a run as an independent. If things get a whole lot worse in the next few months, he may be taken very seriously.
November 14th, 2015 at 9:08:43 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 102
Posts: 6605
Quote: Wizard
Maybe this is easy to say in retrospect, but I wish we had never had any kind of military presence in any Muslim country. If they don't like the dictator in control -- fine, have a civil war, but don't come crying to us if you find yourself on the losing side. In fact, I think dictators get too much of a bad wrap. If the alternative is chaos and civil war, I'll take the dictator.


The thing is that even if we do not choose war, wars choose us. 40% or so of the oil in the world in the area. Suez Canal that lets trade flow between Europe and Asia. Before anyone says public transit, hybrids, whatever, do remember how much of our lives is based on oil. Life without it is not possible as we know it.

As to dictators, the Shah was an SOB but he was our SOB. We followed that protocol 1945-197something. Slowly things changed. Nassar in Egypt was a big change, one of the first to learn to play the USA against the USSR for his own gain. Human rights paid more attention to. If we can keep our SOB fine, but that is not so easy sometimes.

Quote:
I say bring in the drones and on-the-ground spotters. I wouldn't stand in Russia's way either. This is war and there are going to be casualties. If we're doing Bashar al Assad's bidding, so be it. I'll take him over ISIS any day.


I don't see drones doing it, but I am totally for letting others fight the thing. We let the Russians take the brunt of the Germans in WW2, lets do that again. After France gets over their shock phase we need to smack them upside the head and say, "ready to get serious?!" But we need to get serious first. We are not there yet.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
November 16th, 2015 at 11:25:21 AM permalink
boymimbo
Member since: Mar 25, 2013
Threads: 5
Posts: 619
Most analysts are now stating that these ISIS attacks are only the beginning.

I think Terapined got it right. ISIS was allow to grow because of a power vacuum in Iraq which occurred when the Americans left. Ultimately this lays on Obama (though Bush negotiated) and the unpopularity of the war. But you can go back and blame Bush II on the decision to take Iraq based on faulty intelligence. But you can go back further and blame Clinton, etc... but let's stay with the clear and present danger which is ISIA in Iraq and Syria.

In any case, we are (and have been) clearly at war with fundamentalist Islam. This does not mean stopping the refugee program or xenophobia against the entire Muslim community. We must continue to show compassion towards those who are oppressed and whose lives are threatened. We must continue to be welcoming and to integrate everyone into our society and give them opportunities to work and to find happiness in the West. This politics of inclusion will turn some fundamentalists into moderates. We must continue to be vigilant and watch closely people entering our country. We must continue to vanquish our enemies abroad who are intent on destroying us. There really is no other path at this point in time.

Look at face, for example. His bittnerness towards life and his disenfranchment has to do with the lack of opportunity in his life. Give people opportunities and they will be content members of society and not on the edge which he himself has admitted to.

"Boots on the ground" will be required to destroy ISIS. The raw materials (oil, weapons, money) must be taken away to remove their ability to publicize themselves and to fund their operations. We must demonstrate compassion to those willing to change.
November 16th, 2015 at 4:23:53 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 102
Posts: 6605
Quote: boymimbo


"Boots on the ground" will be required to destroy ISIS. The raw materials (oil, weapons, money) must be taken away to remove their ability to publicize themselves and to fund their operations. We must demonstrate compassion to those willing to change.


We will not destroy ISIS. The west does not have the will and the stomach to do what has to be done. One of our political parties will not even say "islamic terrorists." People think that if we "make them like us" then we will be able to end this all. What kind of stomach is needed?

For one, no more immigration especially of refugees, period. Sorry if that means "good people" cannot come here. There are too many bad ones that are coming with them. A smart country does not let potential enemies immigrate to them.

Next, major "boots" are needed. The entire area must be treated as an occupied territory and colony. This occupation needs to last at least a generation. We keep thinking it can be wrapped up in a year or two at most. Obama was in a hurry to leave Iraq, we see what has happened. If we leave too soon we will merely get ISIS II and the left will be blaming President Trump.

During the occupation, the area must be de-islamified, same as de-nazification in post-WW2 West Germany. Islam is clearly a problem to the west, in 20 years it may be too big of one to ever defeat. It may be already. Religion of peace and tolerance it is not.

I do not see the USA having the will and balls to do this. Too many people simply cannot say islam is a problem. Too many want to say, "but there are so many good people in these countries, we cannot simply 'hate them.'"

Another major attack will happen in the USA. It will happen because we will be watching all the wrong things and islam-apologists will keep crying "RACIST ISLAMAPHOBE!" at anyone who suggests we take action.

Be ready for an attack. FBI already looking at what, 900 leads?
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
November 16th, 2015 at 6:14:22 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 12
Posts: 2011
Quote: AZDuffman
We will not destroy ISIS.
Of course not, we helped create them, right along with the Mujahadeen, Alqueda etc. We grab these easily manipulated guys that are easily misled, wind them up, spin them around, fund them, arm them and point them in the direction that will make the MIC and the bankers the most money from perpetual war.


Quote:
The west does not have the will and the stomach to do what has to be done. One of our political parties will not even say "islamic terrorists." People think that if we "make them like us" then we will be able to end this all. What kind of stomach is needed?
Why, oh why couldn't you guys have given Ron Paul a chance? Give this poor country a rest, shame on the neo con's and neo libs. http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/november/15/paris-and-what-should-be-done/

Quote:
A smart country does not let potential enemies immigrate to them.
A smart country does what ours did, and gave those that did all the work and fighting a break, and gave peace a chance. And out of the bowels of hell came some greedy sob's, and freedom wasn't good enough, then they took over the money supply, and the rest is history, see fed. reserve. We are all working for fiat money created out of thin air, thin air, digits, ones and zero's. That is brilliant. We have destroyed the world since going to the moon, and it is all for naught. For a computer entry.

Those muslims that you want eliminated at least support real money, and hate usury. That is what many of the conflicts over there are about. The terrorists we supported to create a terror state out of Libya started a central bank before the war was half over. Who does that? And those weapons that Khadafi had all locked up, now in the hands of ISIS. 2+2 From the MIC's hands, too Hillary's lips, to Steven's grave, to ISIS hands. voila, friggin magic. Round and round it goes, and it is always the same people pushing it.

Quote:
Obama was in a hurry to leave Iraq, we see what has happened.
We never left Iraq, the boots just became private boots and their salaries went up ten times. Where do you think the trillion dollar black budget goes? By privatizing the military with XE, or Blackwater, inquiry's are exempt from freedom of information requests. The largest embassy in the world at over one billion tax dollars, never went undefended, you think? They don't call it "the Green Zone" for nothin.

Quote:
During the occupation, the area must be de-islamified, same as de-nazification in post-WW2 West Germany.
So, where you going to get all that money? I hope if your people decide to permanently occupy the mid east, you do it McCarthy style [as he did with Japan] and force them all to be in unions.
Quote:
Islam is clearly a problem to the west, in 20 years it may be too big of one to ever defeat. It may be already. Religion of peace and tolerance it is not.
And you think central banking is all about peace? Guffaw. How is it, every place you people decide "we" need to go to war with, either has oil underneath or no central bank on top? Religion, be damned.

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I do not see the USA having the will and balls to do this.
Then we will just have to bomb somebody a little easier. Maybe blow up South America again. We have been at war with Nicaragua 4 times.
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Too many people simply cannot say islam is a problem.
And so few seem to know, where the money comes from for perpetual war, or why we have waves of immigrants, or 50 million on food stamps. It is always the bankers, and it is all about control, certainly not for the American way of life.
Quote:
Too many want to say, "but there are so many good people in these countries, we cannot simply 'hate them.'"
Doesn't matter if you hate them, or every one. Just don't steal my money or kids for your war. You and McCain can walk hand in hand if you want. But you should realize he has been photographed supporting Al Nusra in Syria.

So him, Tony Blair, the Bushs, Obama [bowing] Hillary, Cheney, Clintons, all of them are sucking on the big banks, Wall street, making laws that make it the law we should do the paying and the fighting. It makes me wonder why you continue thinking Islam is the biggest threat to your well being?

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Another major attack will happen in the USA.
Where do you think they will get the weapons? Que Bono?

Quote:
Be ready for an attack. FBI already looking at what, 900 leads?
Ever read Sibel Edmonds? http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/ The truth about the most gagged person in America. It's public record. The truth about the Hastert case, Turkey and 911, Turkey and ISIS the PKK, etc.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
November 16th, 2015 at 7:48:44 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 49
Posts: 4655
The British took some local goatherder, declared him an Emir, had him sign a oil royalties agreement.. and its been simple politically ever since.

In more recent times there was an Arab Spring ... but we did not offer them support so their borders became porous and their few hardliners became more hardline to to attract more support from Iran.

Now I've used the Papa Doc Baby Doc analogy before but here its all "front men" for the real Puppeteers.

Consider the yacht pirates off Somalia.... they all had sat phones and the NSA had the transcripts when teh phones were answered in Israel, Iran, Iraq, etc. Eventually the pirates became more skilled and better equipped. As the puppeteers invested the profits wisely and no one wanted to expose Iran, Iraq and Saudia Arabia as the major players. No one wanted rock the boat by exposing Putin influence. Arab Spring dimmed as the Tunisian thugs gained Toyotas, GPS equipment and Sat phones with maps of pre-positioned food, fuel and water depots. No longer did Tunisian thugs have to read Iranian newspapers, they took their orders directly from the Iranians.

ISIS moves in, resistance is crushed, seven year old boys are given AK 47s and IED detonation devices. And told to execute any "resistors" who want peace.
November 16th, 2015 at 10:30:31 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 720
Posts: 8379
Quote: AZDuffman
During the occupation, the area must be de-islamified, same as de-nazification in post-WW2 West Germany. Islam is clearly a problem to the west, in 20 years it may be too big of one to ever defeat. It may be already. Religion of peace and tolerance it is not.


Possibly a very good analogy. While certainly many anti-Germanic slurs were hurled in WWII, only the most bigoted person could believe that every German was a sadistic killer. But the power was certainly driving them a certain way.

There are over a billion Muslims in the world. You would have to be a bigot to think that all of them are sadists. But a lot of the religion is clearly about dominance and holy wars.

Quote: AZDuffman
Another major attack will happen in the USA. It will happen because we will be watching all the wrong things and islam-apologists will keep crying "RACIST ISLAMAPHOBE!" at anyone who suggests we take action.


My mother believes that the intelligentsia of Islam basis their actions on historical memories. Look at the Muslim attempt to conquer Europe centered around three major historical events or periods.

The first in history is the end of a great campaigns where the Muslims were advanced on Paris and were stopped 125 miles away in October, 732 when forces under the Frankish leader Charles Martel fought a massive invading Islamic army led by Emir Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi Abd al Rahman.

Charles Martel


The second is the Reconquista, a historical period of approximately 770 years in the history of the Iberian Peninsula, beginning Battle of Covadonga (718 or 722), to the fall of Granada, the last Islamic state on the peninsula, in 1492. It ended right before the discovery of the New World, and the period of the Portuguese and Spanish colonial empires which followed. Islam lost Spain, which at the time was the location of the highest level of Muslim civilization.

El Cid, one of the heroes of the Reconquista


Thirdly and even of massive significance to Islamic history is September 11th, 1683, the day when an alliance of Christian armies led by Jan III Sobieski, the King of Poland, arrived at the Gates of Vienna and won the pivotal battle against the Muslim armies to keep them from advancing any further into Europe.

Jan III Sobieski sending a message of victory in Vienna (painting in the Vatican)



Hence we have the devastation of Paris this week, the 2004 Madrid train bombings in Madrid, Spain, where coordinated explosions killed 191 people and injured more than 1800, and the hijacked airlines launched against Pentagon and World Trade Centers.

The leaders who want to restore the caliphate are very aware of the entire history of Islam and have not forgotten anything. The phrase "Islamic terrorist" is not meant to call a billion people sadists.
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