refusing to accept cash

May 12th, 2018 at 11:37:12 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
Quote: Pacomartin
The "tether" crypto currency bears some resemblance to the Central Bank of the Bahamas. The Bahamas issues $275.3 million in currency, where one Bahamian dollar is equal to one USD, and is backed by conservative US investments (like treasury bonds) worth the same amount. You could say that Bahamian dollars are "tethered" or "pegged" to the USD.

Although you could do the same thing with a bank transaction, it is all traceable. The advantage of a crypto transfer is that it has the convenience of a bank electronic transfer, but the privacy of physical cash.


Despite all the comments about a weakening US economy and a weakening US dollar and rumors about a Putin-engineered end-run around the US dollar to create a different world currency standard, ever since WWtwo, the US dollar has been the safety refuge. American cigarettes often served the function of currency but were bulky but always American dollars have been sought after.

Tax havens and tax lawyers serve a function, so-called "dirty" money moves in and out of countries and becomes sanitized, but as the hoodlum from New Jersey said to Bill Nighey in Turks & Caicos, dirty money is all there is these days and it could pay off the national debt of half the civilized world.
May 12th, 2018 at 4:20:37 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Fleastiff
...ever since WWtwo, the US dollar has been the safety refuge...


Prior to WWII there really wasn't much cash. The value in dollars of circulating banknotes per person was:


Paper cash took a jump when gold hoarding became illegal. But it didn't take a substantial jump until onset of WWII.
I think a lot more people grew their own food, and probably paid wages in room and board.
Surprisingly there was not much increase in cash for two decades after WWII.Once the convertibility to gold was dropped, the fed was free to order huge amounts of Benjamins.


Old records don't exist, but in 1974 63% of the $100 bills were printed for just three of the twelve federal reserve districts. Presumably it was the same in earlier decades. Cash was primarily used in the major cities
33.3% New York
15.6% San Francisco
13.9% Chicago
6.1% Boston
6.1% Richmond
5.4% Dallas
4.4% Cleveland
4.1% Philadelphia
3.1% St. Louis
3.1% Kansas City
2.4% Atlanta
2.4% Minneapolis
May 12th, 2018 at 7:20:22 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Pacomartin
Prior to WWII there really wasn't much cash.


My dad was a kid on a farm in W VA
in the 20's. They had almost no money,
never any paper money. Whatever
coins they got were from selling
honey and butter and eggs for
almost nothing to the local store
and using the money to buy matches,
cloth for clothes, and tobacco.

They were completely self sufficient
for everything else. If they needed
a doctor they gave him trade items
instead of money. I wear a signet ring
I got in 1966 made by a blacksmith
from a piece of sterling flatware my
grandpa had in 1914. I got the ring
when he died and have never taken
it off.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 12th, 2018 at 10:39:35 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Value of banknotes per capita in circulation

1928 $16 The first issue of small-size currency printed and released by the U.S. government July 10, 1929 measure 6.14" by 2.61".
1929 $16
1930 $14
1931 $16
1932 $25
1933 $27 Executive Order 6102 : April 5, 1933, "forbidding the hoarding of gold coin / bullion / certificates within CONUS".
1934 $26
1935 $28
1936 $33
1937 $34
1938 $34
1939 $36
1940 $41
1941 $53
1942 $73
1943 $106
1944 $144
1945 $175
...
1950 $163
1960 $166
1970 $266 The Nixon shock the unilateral cancellation of the direct international convertibility of the United States dollar to gold.
1980 $572
1990 $1,092
2000 $2,285
2010 $3,347
2017 $4,793


Quote: Evenbob
My dad was a kid on a farm in W VA in the 20's. They had almost no money, never any paper money.


Using an inflation calculator $166 in 1960 had the same buying power as $76 in 1932 . Since credit cards were extremely rare in 1960 , and the fact that there was only about $27 in cash circulating in 1932 could be explained by the fact that the economic activity was a lot less. You didn't have as many cars, you ate out very rarely, etc. etc. In 1960 probably most people couldn't tell you whose image was on the $100 banknote.

But going the other way, $166 in June 1960 has the buying power of $1383 in December 2017. But in 2017 there are many electronic ways to make payments, you would think that we wouldn't need more cash than the inflation adjusted 1960 amount.
The Fed is circulating about $974 per person in small banknotes of denominations less than $100, but over 38 $100 banknotes per person.

Now the big question is how many are circulating overseas.
May 12th, 2018 at 10:50:55 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Pacomartin

The Fed is circulating about $974 per person


Who has all this cash. The only place I use
cash is at the casino. Every other transaction
I make is electronic or with plastic. I carry
little cash and it's the same $40 for 6
months. The casino cash I never carry
with me. So who has all this cash that's
circulating.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 12th, 2018 at 11:26:04 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Banknotes circulating per person in USA
36.9 : $1 George Washington
3.7 : $2 Thomas Jefferson
9.0 : $5 Abraham Lincoln
6.0 : $10 Alexander Hamilton
28.0 : $20 Andrew Jackson
5.3 : $50 Ulysses S. Grant
38.2 : $100 Benjamin Franklin


Quote: Evenbob
Who has all this cash. The only place I use cash is at the casino. Every other transaction I make is electronic or with plastic.


Actually if I post this on a Canadian forum they ask the same question. Canadians are even less likely to pay in cash than Americans.

Banknotes circulating per person in Canada
7.1 : $5CAD
3.9 : $10CAD
25.5 : $20CAD
7.1 : $50CAD
12.5 : $100CAD ~ $78 USD


Banknotes circulating per person in Sweden
4.9 : 20 kr
1.8 : 50 kr
2.9 : 100 kr
2.8 : 200 kr
6.8 : 500 kr ~ 48.7 EUR = $58.2 USD = $74.4 CAD = £43
0.3 : 1,000 kr

It is very unusual for a developed economy (outside USA) to issue a banknote worth only 20 kr.
May 13th, 2018 at 1:28:12 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Pacomartin
Banknotes circulating per person in USA
]


They aren't circulating with me, or
anybody I know. In the stores I
go to 95% pay with plastic. So
where is all this cash at if the
public doesn't have it.

Most people get their paychecks
direct deposited, even all gov't
checks like SS, gov't employees,
military, have all been DD since
2012. Nobody walks into a bank
with a paycheck and walks out
with cash anymore.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 13th, 2018 at 1:56:33 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Evenbob
They aren't circulating with me, or anybody I know. In the stores I go to 95% pay with plastic.


I'm not sure. Most studies focus on the $100 bill and try to figure out where they are.

Brits only have four denominations, but so far the Bank of England has not scheduled a date to replace the £50 note with a polymer one. The Bank of England simply states that "Our next £20 note, to be issued in 2020, will be made from polymer. We have not yet made a decision on the material for the next £50 note."

As the previous note was just replaced between 2 Nov, 2011 and 30 Apr, 2014 and no new ones have been produced for two years running, many people believe the government is just going to let the current stock slowly vanish over the next 7 years or so.

Both Brits and Canadians are circulating about 56 banknotes per person, but in 4 or 5 denominations.

Banknotes per capita
5.8 £5 (polymer issued 13 Sep 2016)
12.2 £10(polymer issued 14 Sep 2017)
33.0 £20 ~ $27US (paper issued 13 March 2007; polymer to be issued in 2020)
4.8 £50 (paper issued 2 Nov, 2011 )
May 13th, 2018 at 4:28:51 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
I think "circulation" has different meanings.

These prepackaged bills that get traded by drug dealers in the same manner as the Fed trades them around banks are in a different type of circulation as someone who walks around with cash in his pocket and actually spends it.

Consider lottery tickets. Cash or Debit Cards, but no credit cards allowed. Consider the alcohol purchases. Yes, Dear, I put the groceries away and here is the receipt. No cigarettes or booze on the receipt but the items still get acquired at the liquor store next door to the grocery store.

People like to have "walking around money" as well as "walking around plastic". Its a comfort factor. The little girls outside the supermarket selling girl scout cookies or 'send our band to the Nationals" candy bars simply are not set up to take plastic. There is also the "one lone envelope and one stamp please" when you are picking up your mail. They don't want to take a large bill, they sure don't want to put it on plastic because of the fees they have to pay, so they give it to you free and say you can pay when you next come in. That sort of cash circulates based largely on efficiency, forgetfulness and convenience. When the poor guy ahead of you in line at the pharmacy is $1.57 short for his pain medication, you can't give him your plastic but you can give him two bucks out of a mixture of pity and a desire to keep the line moving. Until society changes and a "thingie" card emerges cash will be necessary. By 'thingie' card I mean the miscellaneous card that handles tolls, fares, entrance fees, spare change, library fines, printing fees, photocopy fees, nuisance stuff.

Some other countries have Thingie cards, but America doesn't seem to.

A lot of people hoard large bills for the Power Failure or the feared Power to the People upheaval. When plastic fails the loaves of bread and the ammo boxes will require cash.
May 13th, 2018 at 4:32:38 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Evenbob
They aren't circulating with me, or
anybody I know. In the stores I
go to 95% pay with plastic. So
where is all this cash at if the
public doesn't have it.

Most people get their paychecks
direct deposited, even all gov't
checks like SS, gov't employees,
military, have all been DD since
2012. Nobody walks into a bank
with a paycheck and walks out
with cash anymore.


There is a large unbanked population out there. And every person should keep a month of cash money to go with their month of canned food for emergencies.
The President is a fink.