refusing to accept cash
May 12th, 2018 at 11:37:12 AM permalink | |
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 |
Despite all the comments about a weakening US economy and a weakening US dollar and rumors about a Putin-engineered end-run around the US dollar to create a different world currency standard, ever since WWtwo, the US dollar has been the safety refuge. American cigarettes often served the function of currency but were bulky but always American dollars have been sought after. Tax havens and tax lawyers serve a function, so-called "dirty" money moves in and out of countries and becomes sanitized, but as the hoodlum from New Jersey said to Bill Nighey in Turks & Caicos, dirty money is all there is these days and it could pay off the national debt of half the civilized world. |
May 12th, 2018 at 4:20:37 PM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Prior to WWII there really wasn't much cash. The value in dollars of circulating banknotes per person was: Paper cash took a jump when gold hoarding became illegal. But it didn't take a substantial jump until onset of WWII. I think a lot more people grew their own food, and probably paid wages in room and board. Surprisingly there was not much increase in cash for two decades after WWII.Once the convertibility to gold was dropped, the fed was free to order huge amounts of Benjamins. Old records don't exist, but in 1974 63% of the $100 bills were printed for just three of the twelve federal reserve districts. Presumably it was the same in earlier decades. Cash was primarily used in the major cities 33.3% New York 15.6% San Francisco 13.9% Chicago 6.1% Boston 6.1% Richmond 5.4% Dallas 4.4% Cleveland 4.1% Philadelphia 3.1% St. Louis 3.1% Kansas City 2.4% Atlanta 2.4% Minneapolis |
May 12th, 2018 at 7:20:22 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
My dad was a kid on a farm in W VA in the 20's. They had almost no money, never any paper money. Whatever coins they got were from selling honey and butter and eggs for almost nothing to the local store and using the money to buy matches, cloth for clothes, and tobacco. They were completely self sufficient for everything else. If they needed a doctor they gave him trade items instead of money. I wear a signet ring I got in 1966 made by a blacksmith from a piece of sterling flatware my grandpa had in 1914. I got the ring when he died and have never taken it off. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
May 12th, 2018 at 10:39:35 PM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | Value of banknotes per capita in circulation 1928 $16 The first issue of small-size currency printed and released by the U.S. government July 10, 1929 measure 6.14" by 2.61". 1929 $16 1930 $14 1931 $16 1932 $25 1933 $27 Executive Order 6102 : April 5, 1933, "forbidding the hoarding of gold coin / bullion / certificates within CONUS". 1934 $26 1935 $28 1936 $33 1937 $34 1938 $34 1939 $36 1940 $41 1941 $53 1942 $73 1943 $106 1944 $144 1945 $175 ... 1950 $163 1960 $166 1970 $266 The Nixon shock the unilateral cancellation of the direct international convertibility of the United States dollar to gold. 1980 $572 1990 $1,092 2000 $2,285 2010 $3,347 2017 $4,793
Using an inflation calculator $166 in 1960 had the same buying power as $76 in 1932 . Since credit cards were extremely rare in 1960 , and the fact that there was only about $27 in cash circulating in 1932 could be explained by the fact that the economic activity was a lot less. You didn't have as many cars, you ate out very rarely, etc. etc. In 1960 probably most people couldn't tell you whose image was on the $100 banknote. But going the other way, $166 in June 1960 has the buying power of $1383 in December 2017. But in 2017 there are many electronic ways to make payments, you would think that we wouldn't need more cash than the inflation adjusted 1960 amount. The Fed is circulating about $974 per person in small banknotes of denominations less than $100, but over 38 $100 banknotes per person. Now the big question is how many are circulating overseas. |
May 12th, 2018 at 10:50:55 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Who has all this cash. The only place I use cash is at the casino. Every other transaction I make is electronic or with plastic. I carry little cash and it's the same $40 for 6 months. The casino cash I never carry with me. So who has all this cash that's circulating. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
May 12th, 2018 at 11:26:04 PM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | Banknotes circulating per person in USA 36.9 : $1 George Washington 3.7 : $2 Thomas Jefferson 9.0 : $5 Abraham Lincoln 6.0 : $10 Alexander Hamilton 28.0 : $20 Andrew Jackson 5.3 : $50 Ulysses S. Grant 38.2 : $100 Benjamin Franklin
Actually if I post this on a Canadian forum they ask the same question. Canadians are even less likely to pay in cash than Americans. Banknotes circulating per person in Canada 7.1 : $5CAD 3.9 : $10CAD 25.5 : $20CAD 7.1 : $50CAD 12.5 : $100CAD ~ $78 USD Banknotes circulating per person in Sweden 4.9 : 20 kr 1.8 : 50 kr 2.9 : 100 kr 2.8 : 200 kr 6.8 : 500 kr ~ 48.7 EUR = $58.2 USD = $74.4 CAD = £43 0.3 : 1,000 kr It is very unusual for a developed economy (outside USA) to issue a banknote worth only 20 kr. |
May 13th, 2018 at 1:28:12 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
They aren't circulating with me, or anybody I know. In the stores I go to 95% pay with plastic. So where is all this cash at if the public doesn't have it. Most people get their paychecks direct deposited, even all gov't checks like SS, gov't employees, military, have all been DD since 2012. Nobody walks into a bank with a paycheck and walks out with cash anymore. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
May 13th, 2018 at 1:56:33 AM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
I'm not sure. Most studies focus on the $100 bill and try to figure out where they are. Brits only have four denominations, but so far the Bank of England has not scheduled a date to replace the £50 note with a polymer one. The Bank of England simply states that "Our next £20 note, to be issued in 2020, will be made from polymer. We have not yet made a decision on the material for the next £50 note." As the previous note was just replaced between 2 Nov, 2011 and 30 Apr, 2014 and no new ones have been produced for two years running, many people believe the government is just going to let the current stock slowly vanish over the next 7 years or so. Both Brits and Canadians are circulating about 56 banknotes per person, but in 4 or 5 denominations. Banknotes per capita 5.8 £5 (polymer issued 13 Sep 2016) 12.2 £10(polymer issued 14 Sep 2017) 33.0 £20 ~ $27US (paper issued 13 March 2007; polymer to be issued in 2020) 4.8 £50 (paper issued 2 Nov, 2011 ) |
May 13th, 2018 at 4:28:51 AM permalink | |
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | I think "circulation" has different meanings. These prepackaged bills that get traded by drug dealers in the same manner as the Fed trades them around banks are in a different type of circulation as someone who walks around with cash in his pocket and actually spends it. Consider lottery tickets. Cash or Debit Cards, but no credit cards allowed. Consider the alcohol purchases. Yes, Dear, I put the groceries away and here is the receipt. No cigarettes or booze on the receipt but the items still get acquired at the liquor store next door to the grocery store. People like to have "walking around money" as well as "walking around plastic". Its a comfort factor. The little girls outside the supermarket selling girl scout cookies or 'send our band to the Nationals" candy bars simply are not set up to take plastic. There is also the "one lone envelope and one stamp please" when you are picking up your mail. They don't want to take a large bill, they sure don't want to put it on plastic because of the fees they have to pay, so they give it to you free and say you can pay when you next come in. That sort of cash circulates based largely on efficiency, forgetfulness and convenience. When the poor guy ahead of you in line at the pharmacy is $1.57 short for his pain medication, you can't give him your plastic but you can give him two bucks out of a mixture of pity and a desire to keep the line moving. Until society changes and a "thingie" card emerges cash will be necessary. By 'thingie' card I mean the miscellaneous card that handles tolls, fares, entrance fees, spare change, library fines, printing fees, photocopy fees, nuisance stuff. Some other countries have Thingie cards, but America doesn't seem to. A lot of people hoard large bills for the Power Failure or the feared Power to the People upheaval. When plastic fails the loaves of bread and the ammo boxes will require cash. |
May 13th, 2018 at 4:32:38 AM permalink | |
AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18136 |
There is a large unbanked population out there. And every person should keep a month of cash money to go with their month of canned food for emergencies. The President is a fink. |