refusing to accept cash

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November 22nd, 2016 at 11:03:39 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 706
Posts: 8142
Quote: Nareed
I was last there in 80 or 81, and the question was often, jokingly, whether anyone accepted pesos for payment :)


Well in TJ you have a lot of people paying for lunches or beers using $10's and $20's. In Guadalajara every Casa De Cambio had a sign that said they were interested in $50's and $100's only.

I got the feeling that many people kept their savings in dollar banknotes, just in case the peso would drop.

I wonder if they are going to replace the fence with a wall.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p8kM_9oIr8
December 2nd, 2016 at 3:36:16 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 49
Posts: 4578
South Korean Bank goes coinless..... all coins to be deposited onto ubiquitous Cards for transit and convenience stores. Coins end in 2020.
December 2nd, 2016 at 4:10:52 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 706
Posts: 8142
Quote: Fleastiff
South Korean Bank goes coinless..... all coins to be deposited onto ubiquitous Cards for transit and convenience stores. Coins end in 2020.


W10, W50, W100, W500 Coins
W1000, W5000, W10000, Banknotes
W50000 Banknotes ( first issued June 23, 2009)

W1,000 = 85 cents least valuable
W10,000 = $8.52 most valuable banknote up until 2009
W50,000 = $42.62 most valuable banknote since 2009

If you eliminate coins, than the 1000 and 5000 Won banknote will become less important. If you are going to get your change back on a card, then you probably don't want part of it in small bills.

Per capita banknotes and coins issued (expressed at end of 2015 exchange rate in USD)
$1084 KRW 50,000
$290 KRW 10,000
$22 KRW 5,000 banknotes worth $4.27 apiece
$25 KRW 1,000 banknotes worth $0.85 apiece
$38 Total coin issued

South Korea's $38 in coin per capita is relatively small value compared to $140 in the USA, $63 in Sweden and over $300 in Japan.

Unlike European countries such as Denmark, Sweden and Norway -- global leaders of the electronic money trend -- where ordinary consumers rarely use high-value notes, Korea still has comparably high demand for cash. Statistics from the Bank of Korea show that cash makes up the second-largest share of consumer transaction activity at 36 percent in 2015, following credit cards at 39.7 percent. Scandinavians rely on cash for less than 6 percent of all payments made.

Sweden is making no attempt to eliminate coins. In fact they started last month to replace 86% of their old coins with new ones that are lighter weight.

Sweden is concerned about illegal activity, tax evasion, moving capital out of the country, and personal safety. Korea is trying to eliminate the cost of making payments with coins and small bills.

It's funny because the fear of counterfeiting is very strong in Asia, so large bills are eschewed. Korea is a major economy, and people tell me it was annoying up until 2009 not to have a banknote worth more than US$10.
December 2nd, 2016 at 3:27:11 PM permalink
stinkingliberal
Member since: Nov 9, 2016
Threads: 17
Posts: 731
Quote: Ayecarumba
Are there federal statutes that some institutions must accept cash and coins? The DMV by my house doesn't. I am not sure about the Social Security office. Who is required by law to take all currency?


"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." It's on the currency. This also applies to coins. If you offer legal currency or coin in payment of a debt and it is refused, the debt is null and void.

So legally, the DMV can't refuse your offer to pay their fees in cash. This issue isn't big enough for anyone to have made a fuss about it and test it in court, but I wonder whether contesting it would provoke some kind of change in the law. A lot of poor people don't have credit cards, debit cards, or bank accounts for that matter. They have to buy money orders to pay bills if cash isn't accepted. This amounts to a small but significant tax on the poor.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:34:15 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 706
Posts: 8142
Quote: stinkingliberal
"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." It's on the currency. This also applies to coins. If you offer legal currency or coin in payment of a debt and it is refused, the debt is null and void.


See, you are just making stuff up.

Quote: Treasury Department comment on US code: Section 31 U.S.C. 5103

All United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services.

Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.
December 4th, 2016 at 8:18:41 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 706
Posts: 8142
https://www.corbettreport.com/the-war-on-cash-a-country-by-country-guide/
This article is a good country by country report on the War on Cash.

In 2013 the Mexican government banned cash payments of more than 500,000 pesos for real estate and more than 200,000 pesos for cars, jewelry or lottery tickets.

BACK TO COINS

If you look at the importance of coins in an economy: local currency per capita, and equivalent USD per capita there is a clear distinction.

Naturally Switzerland and Japan have the most valuable coins worth over $300 per person. A 500 JPY is worth US$4.40 and a 5 Swiss Franc coin 5 CHF =US$4.95.

Then comes the former British Empire countries. The Euro zone has very small denomination coins, but not that many of them.

Korea is midway It doesn't have many coins, but it has a fairly advanced integration of computers and smart phones into the economy. It is probably the perfect country to eliminate coins entirely.

Smaller economies may eliminate coins simply because they are difficult to mint and distribute. Very poor people can actually benefit more from an economy built around electronic transactions because maintaining and guarding a change drawer can often be very difficult for street vendors.

USD equiv per capita Country Local Currency
$369.08 Switzerland 366
$306.48 Japan 36897
$155.97 Singapore 221
$140.16 USA 140
$125.92 Hong Kong 976
$118.14 Canada 164
$114.53 Australia 157
$99.76 Britain (UK) 67
$83.54 Euro Zone 77
$63.26 Sweden 534
$38.25 Korea 44835
$18.93 Mexico 326
$7.93 Turkey 23
$7.75 Russia 565
$7.46 Brazil 29
$2.87 Saudi Arabia 11
$0.88 India 5
$0.39 South Africa 6


Saudi Arabian coins are nearly worthless. Their smallest denomination banknote is worth a little more than a US quarter.

Note that Japan is circulating almost 1% of their GDP in coins. In contrast, Sweden will possibly get their banknote circulation down to 1% of GDP by next year.
December 10th, 2016 at 10:26:24 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 706
Posts: 8142
It looks like the time for digital currency is coming soon

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2016/06/16/canada-has-been-experimenting-with-a-digital-fiat-currency-called-cad-coin/#6f69c92e1b0c
Canada Has Been Experimenting With A Digital Fiat Currency Called CAD-COIN

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/japan-mufg-coin-digital-currency-2017-launch/
Japan's Largest Bank to Launch Digital Currency in 2017
According to a report, the Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd., Japan's largest bank will soon become the world's first global bank to issue its own digital currency.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/24/four-top-banks-join-forces-on-new-digital-currency.html
Four of Europe and the U.S.'s biggest banks have joined forces to work on a digital-only cash system, which they hope to launch in two years' time.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/swedens-central-bank-considers-digital-currency-1479296711
Sweden's Central Bank Considers Digital Currency

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/08/13/ecuadors-digital-currency-is-winning-hearts/
Ecuador's digital currency is winning hearts!

http://insidebitcoins.com/news/will-the-mexican-peso-go-digital/24519
Will the Mexican Peso Go Digital?

http://forklog.net/russian-central-bank-studies-pros-and-cons-of-national-digital-currency/
Russian Central Bank Studies Pros and Cons of National Digital Currency

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/noways-biggest-bank-dnb-calls-for-the-end-of-cash-a6828796.html
Norway's biggest bank DNB calls for the end of cash
December 10th, 2016 at 5:34:00 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 49
Posts: 4578
Recent search warrant called for ALL data available about a certain bitcoin variant. All accounts, all transactions, etc.

Maybe that is the real reason ... I'd still join the Finnish one. You don't have to be a Finnish citizen or live there.
December 10th, 2016 at 9:27:17 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 706
Posts: 8142
Quote: Fleastiff
Maybe that is the real reason ... I'd still join the Finnish one. You don't have to be a Finnish citizen or live there.


FIMKrypto (FIMK) = $0.000771
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/fimkrypto/

Seems fairly worthless to me
December 11th, 2016 at 9:34:24 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 49
Posts: 4578
Quote: Pacomartin
FIMKrypto (FIMK) = $0.000771 Seems fairly worthless to me
I was thinking of the mikroBtc from Central Bank of Finland's BlockChain seminar of Sixth of December. Projection for 2017. Obviously I had not noticed the 2017 part but then as I always inform the faithful at DT, Fleastiff never knows anything about anything.
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