Firearms With Face

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December 9th, 2012 at 11:55:26 PM permalink
Face
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3302
I suppose it's time.

Firearms have always been a part of my life. Pops hunted since I was a sprout and there have always been guns around the house. I began shooting once he could be sure I'd listen, which was around 7 years old. I got my first gun at 12, and the rest is history.

My passion for firearms runs pretty deep. Some of it is the simple stuff; being a country boy and somewhat of a simpleton, having a stick that makes a big BOOM and shoots fire tickles a certain part of my brain. As I grew and became proficient, it became just another game you could play to test yourself against your peers, not unlike seeing who could throw a rock the farthest and hit the street sign at the end of the road. Being able to plink more cans in a row was just a different version of this. Once I matured and started looking at things deeper, I began to appreciate the art of gunsmithing and the craftsmanship involved. In a way, it's similar to my passion for cars. Sure, they are machines, they are tools, but some of them just bring out a love for some reason or another. Sometimes it's the engineering, sometimes the design, sometimes I can't tell one way or another, but something just speaks to me. Recently, I've began looking at them as a symbol of America, of our Freedom, and have begun delving into the legal aspect - gun laws and how they affect the population. Some of the things I've found are surprising, and as Americans, regardless of your stance, I think they are worthy of discussion.

So I bring to you Firearms With Face. Here I plan to share with you my collection and perhaps stories associated with the individual pieces, discuss the history of said weapons, and hopefully delve into gun laws as they affect you and I. In addition, I'm hoping this helps me sort out my own feelings. Sometime around college age, I realized extremism was bad, no matter how righteous one may feel they are. My growing love of guns and my increasing understanding of gun laws, mixed with the increase in ignorant statements as the result of the Colorado theatre shooting, KC Chiefs murder/suicide, etc, I feel, have me toeing the edge of extremism again. I'm hoping that through the process of discussion, I'll help spread the word while at the same time bringing myself back to center. And hey, I might even convince others to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights, which would please me deeply =) So what the hell, let's do this thing!

As always, feel free to bring up anything you want to talk about, or ask any question you may have been wondering. Even if you're completely anti-gun or on the fence, I welcome all discussion. At least from me, I can promise no hostility ;) Ethics, history, military, hunting, home defense, legality, it's all fair game in Firearms With Face.

Let the games begin!
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 10th, 2012 at 2:06:38 PM permalink
AcesAndEights
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 5
Posts: 238
Sweet. I was hoping you'd start a thread like this.

I'm probably going to fail on my new years resolution of buying a gun this year - it's almost over and this next month is going to be crazy. Also I'm not feeling super secure about my job situation, so I kind of want to get on firmer ground before I shell out the cash for a pistol, ammo, gun safe, more classes, etc.

But anyway, my plan is to look for a good used Glock 17, probably 3rd gen because I've heard there were some "issues" with the 4th gen. However, I'm open to the 4th gen (I like the ambidextrous magazine release) or even an XDM 9mm if the price is right. I've shot both of these a fair bit at the range, but should probably log a few more test-shooting sessions.

I was originally thinking about a .40S&W pistol - but decided that since I'm a newbie and not a very good shot, I should stick to the cheap ammo while I'm refining my skills and aim. My eventual goal is to own 2 or 3 handguns and maybe something bigger (shotgun, rifle, who knows).
"You think I'm joking." -EvenBob
December 10th, 2012 at 4:25:39 PM permalink
Face
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3302
Quote: AcesAndEights
Sweet. I was hoping you'd start a thread like this.


Glad to have you on board =)

As far as "failing a resolution", I'm equal parts "don't worry" and "hurry up" ;) Of course I encourage everyone to do it NOW!, but I feel your pain. The time between when I said "I'm gonna do it" until I actually got serious about it was 6 years. From getting serious to actually doing it was another 2, then I had another 20 months waiting for the infinite generosity of NYS to give me the damn thing. So no worries, but don't slack when it comes time.

As far as your Gen 3 vs Gen 4 thing, I can help a bit. As a GLOCK owner, I can empathize with the pain it is to get any concrete information. Like anything else, be it Chevy vs Ford, X-Box vs Playstation, or Mayo vs Miracle Whip, fanboi-ism runs rampant, and you sometimes may want to tell everyone to STFU and just answer a simple question. Here's the skinny...

Unless you're left handed, the ambidexterous release is a non issue. If you are a lefty, that might be enough to make the decision right there.

The release is also easier to hit on a G4 than a G3. That's good because it's easier to hit, and bad because it's easier to hit. In the long run, especially as a first gun, I'd consider it inconsequential as you'll sort of mold yourself to fit the gun you have. Since the difference is minute, I'd only lightly consider it as a basis of making your choice.

The G4 has stiffer springs to better handle a high pressure self defense (SD) load. Really, only experts could notice a difference. The thing a novice might notice is the ejection. I've heard many state that the brass of light loads doesn't clear well, dropping to the feet or sometimes plinking off the shooters forehead. I have not heard of issues similar to my AMT where the function of the gun was impaired, such as the brass not clearing and jamming, or it cycling too fast / too slow and affecting the reload. Again, it wouldn't be enough for me to change my mind on anything.

G4 guns only accept G4 clips (mags). Some guys like to switch stuff up, buying additional barrels, clips, etc. If you think you may be one of them, the G4 has less options.

"Feel" is purely personal preference. Some like G3, some like G4. Some like a big, fat grip, others a more delicate setup. Some like a smooth grip, some like the Rought Textured Frame (RTF). No matter what you read on which is better and why, make sure you test them out and see for yourself. No forum report is going to tell you what feels good to you.

Really, the only thing that would be a deal breaker/maker to me is my handedness. I'd think if I was a lefty, there'd be no question that a G4 is the way to go. If you're a righty, then the rest is nitpicky. Pick away ;)

In regards to caliber choice, a .40 isn't bad. The difference between .40 and 9mm is a few cents a round. If you buy by the box of 50 at Walmart, you're looking at <$5 difference. If you buy by the crate out of a gun mag, the difference is even less. .45 is where things start to get expensive, 10mm more so, and .44 is prohibitively so. Just something to think about...

As far as your ending comments concerning shotguns and/or rifles, I've five words for you...

Photo courtesy of Old El Paso

As much as I love handguns, long guns are my bread and butter. There'll be much talk about them, so stay tuned!
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 10th, 2012 at 5:42:18 PM permalink
AcesAndEights
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 5
Posts: 238
Quote: Face
Unless you're left handed, the ambidexterous release is a non issue. If you are a lefty, that might be enough to make the decision right there.

The release is also easier to hit on a G4 than a G3. That's good because it's easier to hit, and bad because it's easier to hit.

Now I remember, it wasn't the ambidextrous thing (I'm a standard righty), it WAS the fact that they made the button larger and easier to hit. As you point out, it's kind of a good news/bad news situation. When I was test-firing the G3, I found it a stretch to get to the mag release with my right thumb while holding the gun in a standard grip, whereas with the G4 it was easy. Of course, if it's easy, it's easier to do by accident.

I already got my WA state CPL by the way, which is kind of ridiculous since I don't own a single firearm. But, I was bored at the time and job-less, so it was easy enough to do. As opposed to NYS, it's way too easy to get one here, in some people's opinion. Background check, fingerprints, and you're in as long as you're not a felon (and there may even be exceptions to that based on the felony, I don't remember). No requirement to demonstrate any kind of proficiency or even book knowledge of firearms...kind of makes you wonder who's packing around here...
"You think I'm joking." -EvenBob
December 10th, 2012 at 7:39:09 PM permalink
Face
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3302
Quote: AcesAndEights
...kind of makes you wonder who's packing around here...


Quite the point, if you ask me.

The issue of the functionality of a particular gun is a tough one. The rabid SD owner might think that release is a Big Damn Deal and wouldn't touch it. Personally, I'm not sure it's much of a negative, if it's one at all. With one exception, I've never owned or used a gun where the release was such that it was easy to accidentally eject a clip. And really, how can one person definitively state something is good or bad? Someone with sausage fingers that paws at everything might not want a high profile, light springed release for fear of accidental activation. A more dexterous and light fingered person might want just that so when they touch it, it comes right out.

I'd say this one is purely personal preference and you should go with your gut. Even though you might be a beginner, you know how rough vs delicate / clumsy vs ninja you are. If you let someone talk you into something based on their preference, you're likely to end up with a mistake in your hand. If the eject is the issue and you like the G4, the choice is easy.

Now, I'd just ask myself one last question: Am I sure I want a Standard as opposed to a Compact or Sub Compact?
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 10th, 2012 at 8:59:20 PM permalink
Face
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
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Quote: Face
Now, I'd just ask myself one last question: Am I sure I want a Standard as opposed to a Compact or Sub Compact?


(Ended my last post early, just wanted to finish this up)

The reason I brought up Standard vs Compact vs Sub is I made a mistake when I bought mine. I have giant hands, 10" from pinky tip to thumb tip, and long, spidery piano fingers. Add to that that the first handgun I became proficient on was a Ruger Super Blackhawk, and I demanded a "big" gun. Big just felt better, and smaller framed guns like my AMT always felt kind of lost in my mitts. So I got the 22, loved it, and then I had to conceal it. Even wearing full winter gear with a long ski coat has it's issues; summer time is a complete lost cause. My Sheriff buddy recently gave me his 23, the same gun in Compact, and I wanted to bang my head off the wall. Zero difference in feel and completely easier to conceal.

If you plan to open carry, maybe it's not a big deal. But even day to day stuff, like wearing a seatbelt, is going to be affected by carrying. The bigger the gun, the bigger the effect. Keep that in mind when making your pick.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 11th, 2012 at 2:59:23 PM permalink
AcesAndEights
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 5
Posts: 238
Hey Face, any chance you can identify the weapon in this picture:
A friend on the range
Not important, just curious :)
"You think I'm joking." -EvenBob
December 11th, 2012 at 5:37:25 PM permalink
Face
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3302
Quote: AcesAndEights
Hey Face, any chance you can identify the weapon in this picture


Based on the box-like slide, and position of the slide lock and slide stop lever, I'd say definitely a GLOCK. As far as which model, I have no clue. I don't have the Super Trooper "enhance" function on my PC required to see any details ;)
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 12th, 2012 at 8:54:12 AM permalink
AcesAndEights
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 5
Posts: 238
Quote: Face
Based on the box-like slide, and position of the slide lock and slide stop lever, I'd say definitely a GLOCK. As far as which model, I have no clue. I don't have the Super Trooper "enhance" function on my PC required to see any details ;)

Yeah that was my guess too, with a chrome-like finish on the slide or something.

"Enhance......enhance......enhance....."
"You think I'm joking." -EvenBob
December 12th, 2012 at 12:14:16 PM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 92
Posts: 2285
Me and Guns.

Well, clearly a hunter wants no interference in his rights to own and use guns. And has a general interest. But I have observed that a guy who is into hunting is not as much 'into guns' as someone who has an interest in them outside of hunting. A hunter probably owns less guns and easily gets into an area where he lacks knowledge, talking about them generally, in comparison.

As far as issues, the one that has me is the "slippery slope"... I really have become convinced that it is a mistake to give in on any demands to control guns, as the people who push this [I really believe] want to take them away completely and view any concession as a stepping stone to what they really want.

I think if I had the time I might try to sharpen my skills with long distance shooting with a rifle and scope. I can tell you, though, one thing that bugs me is how much the ammo costs. They aren't giving that stuff away! [does that convince you I don't seem to have the right DNA to really be a gun buff?]
Mustard:You like Kipling, Miss Scarlet? Sure, I'll eat anything [from movie]
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