Firearms With Face

January 16th, 2013 at 12:37:07 PM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 92
Posts: 2285
Quote: Face
My beefs: ...What is the point?

... Again, what's the point?

...and isn't this the point of it all? Isn't it, really? A few million gun at $5-$20 a pop


IMO, yes, the latter for sure but also registration for the only other purpose gun registration really has: The ability to come and take those guns once they have the balls to pass the laws that you can't have these things at all and oh by the way thanks for telling us where to come get them way back when when we promised we would never do that.

A post by me one day is coming about how just this has definitely happened in many places outside the US.

Is it also a misdemeanor not to register? If so, I my demeanor would be of the 'mis' type.

Looks like though you have avoided General Confiscation this time.

Quote: Face
I wish for anyone pro-gun or pro-rights to assist us NY'ers in our fight. Help us keep our rights and take a stand against this nonsense.


Out-of-state votes will be effective?
Mustard:You like Kipling, Miss Scarlet? Sure, I'll eat anything [from movie]
January 16th, 2013 at 1:32:47 PM permalink
Face
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3302
Quote: odiousgambit
IMO, yes, the latter for sure but also registration for the only other purpose gun registration really has: The ability to come and take those guns once they have the balls to pass the laws that you can't have these things at all and oh by the way thanks for telling us where to come get them way back when when we promised we would never do that.


Agreed. Fees and confiscation. Even playing the devil's advocate, I can't concieve of a pro-safety reason of registration. I don't recall car registration as being a safety feature.

Quote: odiousgambit
Is it also a misdemeanor not to register? If so, I my demeanor would be of the 'mis' type.


There was nothing in the new bill denoting penalties. In this case, I refer back to the previous law, where yes, it is a misdemeanor punishable by a max of $1k fine and/or year in the clink. Of course, I'm just using penalties for somewhat unrelated registrations, as long guns never had such penalties. Who knows what they'll eventually be adjusted or created to, but I'd bet the farm they're equal or greater to this.

Quote: odiousgambit
Looks like though you have avoided General Confiscation this time.


Indeed. "This time"...

Quote: odiousgambit
Out-of-state votes will be effective?


Absolutely. While obviously mostly NY'ers, there's already tons of out of staters on it. I was number 2,100 yesterday. There's 12,000+ today. Need 12,000 more before mid February, but the more the merrier.

I heard an interview with one of the Assemblymen from my area this morning, who was incredulous as to how this went down. NYS, a land where not even the simplest things can get done (see Peace Bridge), rammed this thing through in days with little thought to consequences. They rammed it through so fast, they didn't realize that if an on-duty LEO enters school property with his weapon, they just made him a felon. Oops. Rather than "fight crime", they just made hundreds of thousands if not millions of NY'ers criminals overnight. I guess if you can't beat 'em...
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
January 18th, 2013 at 10:38:45 PM permalink
Face
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
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I used to call her Annie Oakley. Now she's Bonnie Parker. You know, on account of being a criminal and all =p



That's me Del-Ton Echo she's holding. It's an A2, which is the civilian version of the M4, which is a shortened version of the M16. Got the red dot and laser on the above pic, a simple 12X on the lower. This is the gun that made me wear ear protection at all times. I always "just gotta hear it once" whenever I get something loud, and this one almost ruined me. The muzzle break isn't so much loud, but it gives off a concussion wave unlike anything I've ever shot. It felt like someone cupped their hands and clapped me on the ear, smashing my eardrum against my skull. It was like hearing underwater; I couldn't hear squat out of my left ear for 2 days. Ear protection, don't be stupid.

I plan on experimenting with this gun once the weather breaks (which won't be for months, unfortunately). I keep whining about how mag cap limits mean nothing, so I plan to do a test using this Del-Ton with a 30 round clip vs my GLOCK using three 10 rounders, reloading and all. 30 shots on 30 targets, how much faster is the scary gun, really? I'll be sure to video and post it, and then we can discuss.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
January 20th, 2013 at 9:49:32 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 835
Posts: 9984


Question 1) How is it possible for this gun not to discharge? Are guns that prone to malfunction, or did the gunmen do something wrong?

I realize that it may be impossible to answer this question.

Question 2) What do you think about this article on tracking ammunition. While there may be 300 million guns in circulation and 10-12 billion bullets sold in a year, for some obvious reasons gun control thinks tracking bullets may be the only solution. The argument is guns are function for decades, but everyone needs bullets. Most bullets are used shortly after being purchased.
Tracking Bullets
January 20th, 2013 at 4:42:31 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 121
Posts: 14975
He probably had the safety on. Or it was made in Bulgaria,
where they were.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 21st, 2013 at 2:16:57 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 92
Posts: 2285
Quote: Pacomartin
How is it possible for this gun not to discharge?


apparently you are assuming I know what happened here. I don't, wanna inform?

Not knowing anything about what happened here, I will give my 2 cents though: There is absolutely zero chance IMO the cartridge was at fault [if the gun didnt go off]. It's the gun at astronomical odds. Slight chance it was mishandled, even just leaving the safety on, as Bob notes. But most likely the gun is just a piece of s**t [assuming the shooter didnt forget to chamber a round]. Any gun should go off on at least the first shot; remaining shots can be dicey if it is an auto-loader like this.
Mustard:You like Kipling, Miss Scarlet? Sure, I'll eat anything [from movie]
January 21st, 2013 at 5:12:38 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 54
Posts: 6166
The safety catch.
Not sufficiently cleaned after prior discharge.
January 21st, 2013 at 6:42:38 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 835
Posts: 9984
Quote: odiousgambit
Not knowing anything about what happened here, I will give my 2 cents though:


I can only ask for your 2 cents. It has now been revealed the gunman used a gas pistol loaded with pepper spray that would not have killed the opposition leader. The target, Dogan, resigned after the incident. So possibly that was the objective all along.
January 21st, 2013 at 11:10:46 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 54
Posts: 6166
Somewhere upthread:
>Ain't she purdy!

>> Purdy is a term reserved for shotguns and your new fishing buddy.

Here is a wikipedia reference. I found out it was spelled Purdey instead of Purdy.

James Purdey & Sons Limited designs, manufactures, distributes and sells shotguns, rifles, and ammunition and designs, distributes and retails men's and women's clothing and accessories under the Purdey brand. Founded by James Purdey in London, England in 1814, Purdey has become famous for producing the very finest sporting shotguns and rifles.

.........
In the USA and the UK the word Purdey was often used synonymously for "shotgun" and in the Western USA the term "Express gun" developed not from a shipping company but from a slogan used by the Purdey company.

Now that that minor detail is cleared up. Enjoy that trip to the wilds of Utah or Wherever and send your fishing buddy a WOV membership application so we can hear from her directly. Does she count cards?
January 21st, 2013 at 4:28:36 PM permalink
Face
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3302
Again Paco has cleared the situation up before I could reply, but you brought up an important safety issue I’d like to expound upon - What do you do when a gun doesn’t fire?

The exceptional manufacturing processes we now enjoy make misfires rare indeed, and it’s because of this that we never think about it happening. When it does happen, it’s such a shock that people often do stupid things. I know I have.

When that gun goes click and nothing happens, what do 99% of people do? They turn the gun sideways and look at it incredulously, like a monkey doing a math problem. Try it sometime, load a dud for your buddy. Watch what he does, and I guarantee that immediately after the misfire, barrel control goes right out the window as he turns the gun to look at the action with a stupid look on his face. I’ve had a number of different kinds of misfires, which I’ll get into in a bit, but that was always the first thing I did before I decided to stop being an idiot.

Never do that. If there’s only one safety rule you ever follow, it should be to keep control of the barrel and never point it at something you don’t want dead. Whether it doesn’t fire when you want it to, it does fire when you don’t want it to, you trip over a fence, your dog knocks you down, or you go sliding down a hill, never give up control of that barrel. Control your barrel, and a million accidental discharges will kill exactly no one.

So what are some causes? Typically, it’s something like EvenBob mentioned, ie something stupid. Someone either forgot to disengage the safety, forgot to cock it in the first place, or the gun is unloaded. If the former, the trigger will be hard as a rock. The latter two, it’ll be mushy as hell. Simply correct the issue while keeping the barrel pointing downrange, and ignore the titters from your shooting buddies.

Mechanical issues are rare, at least for the first shot and regardless of gun type. A gun that doesn’t fire the first shot is either incredibly worn, damaged, or has been modified incorrectly with aftermarket parts. Get ye to a gunsmith post haste. Subsequent shots from any gun should come as easy as the first. If they don’t, ~100% of your problem is with the reloading process. Some guns with this issue are more dangerous than others. A pump action with a bent extractor won’t load properly. If you mess with it to get the round out, not much could ever happen. My AMT (an auto) with its too-soft slide spring often cycles too fast and rams a round into the outside of the barrel, jamming the round in place between the barrel and slide. A few times it was caught just enough to stick, but the moment I touched the slide it was enough to overcome the friction and the slide rammed the round home. If my finger was on the trigger, the round would’ve went downrange and the slide would’ve came back from recoil and impaled my off hand. In any case, no matter what gun or load you use, if something goes wrong, bring your eyes to the gun. NEVER bring your gun to your eyes.

The last is a true misfire, and here’s where we can get really hurt. Due to the complete rarity of a perfectly functioning gun not firing a mass produced bullet (I’m at about a 0.0003% failure rate), they’ll catch you off guard when they do. Most duds are just that – duds. Some though, some “slow burn”. For whatever reason, the primer doesn’t give off that jet of fire into the powder charge, instead it just smolders. Eventually, that smoldering will reach the powder and BAM!, the round goes off. Said delays can last seconds, which is enough time to turn your gun sideways, even eject the round into your hand before it does. Anytime you get a “dud”, always remain at attention with sights on target for a 10 count. After a 10 count, eject the round while minding your barrel and dispose of the round. I’ve had duds on everything from .22 rimfire to .223 rifle to .44mag pistol rounds. It can happen. No “slow burns” yet, thank god, because I used to just insta-jack the dud onto my feet and keep firing.

That .44mag “dud” was one of those things that you couldn’t make up. I had 6 rounds left and planned to fan the hammer rapid draw cowboy style. 6 shots were too many for that because the iron sights gouge your palm to hell, so I shot 2 in proper form. Did a controlled fan for the 3rd. Some time had passed, since I shoot the $1.20 p/round .44 very slowly. I got ready to fan the next three, and draw! BAM! BAM! click. Click? WTF click, I thought that was 5? I opened the load door and spun the wheel, checking for hits on the primer. All 6 had a dimple. But I couldn’t shake that feeling that I only shot 5. So I reset and began a slow hammer fan of all the chambers. Click. Click. Click. BAM!

My quick fans caused me to not draw the hammer back far enough on the last shot, denting the primer but not touching it off. It was still completely live. The worst thing was that my slow fans to recheck all the rounds caused my fan hand to come to rest right on top of my shooting hand. When that .44 touched off, the gun kicked back, and the hammer smashed me right on the 3rd metacarpal, that big bone that makes up your hand and connects to your middle finger, right on top of a knot where I had broken it previously. I thought I broke it again, and since I did it 5 minutes before work, I had to work one handed the whole day.

Laziness and stupidity. Firearms cure both.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.