Neo-monophysitism
December 13th, 2015 at 11:05:07 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Okay thanks for that clarification. As I suspected we differ on our use of the word "story". What I am suggesting is that the chapters in question of Genesis is like a movie that says, "Based on actual events". This means that the writer or director knows certain things that most certainly happened, some truths, and then builds the story around them in the genre of myth. You can teach any lesson with a story, but I believe it is always more effective when it is connected to real life events and reality.
They appropriately refer to Genesis in the way that even back then they knew was not a historical writing, but a truth telling myth based on real events.
I think you should go back and read that again. The statement of a consequence of sin is not a commandment of how we are supposed to live. In fact wouldn't we try very hard not to live out the terrible consequence of our sins and return to the attitude that filled the Garden of Eden where men and women were equal partners meant to help one another in their complementarity?
As someone pointed out already it is hard to read the OT and see anything but problems for those who had multiple wives. You are right the one spouse rule which was present in the first chapters of Genesis and then was lost became a later development or a return back to the way God had ordained it.
I think this story is used to criticize some of the deviant sexual practices and abuses of the Canaanite religion, which traces its roots back to Ham. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
December 13th, 2015 at 12:04:45 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Such utter tripe, I laugh out loud when I read this nonsense. Priests are like vacuum cleaner door to door salesmen, always selling their product even when off duty. Except they're selling myths, not vacuums. Watch out evil sinner, look how far you've fallen from perfection! Always making people feel less than, always making people feel awful so later they they can do them a 'favor', and give them a little false hope. And the kicker is, they think they're doing good, they really think they're doing 'gods work'. Guilt salesmen, avoid them like the plague. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
December 13th, 2015 at 12:20:02 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Nobody ever needs to convince anyone how fallen from perfection they are! The most important job for priests and really for everyone is to convince people to not give up on the dream of perfection and to convince them not to feel awful about themselves. My job and yours if you chose to accept it is to give hope to people and remind them of how awesome they are and how much potential they have. It is to save people from the tyranny of their sins and make them feel good about themselves again. I continue to have NO idea why you think I or the Church would ever want to make people feel awful, that is exactly against what Jesus came to teach us. Maybe you are confusing the reality of guilt people feel for their sin as the end of the message of Jesus, that is like stopping at the crucifixion. However, we both know the story doesn't end there. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
December 13th, 2015 at 2:16:52 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Nice dodge. Here's a point-blank question: do you believe Eve and Adam were real people? That is, do you believe there were two humans who somehow came into existence as fully formed adults, lived in a privileged place where all their needs were taken care of, did not feel sexual desires, did not age, etc.? If you do, I'd be very interested to see how that squares with very elementary biology and evolution, to say the least. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
December 13th, 2015 at 2:31:43 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
You keep repeating this drivel like we're all really striving to be perfect, and we're all so fallen. It's religious swill. I don't feel guilty, I don't feel fallen, and I sure as hell don't want to be perfect, whatever that means. You set up the straw man and make him perfect, then pretend that's what we're all striving for. It's meaningless nonsense meant to make people feel bad about themselves. You aren't the solution, you and your kind are the problem. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
December 13th, 2015 at 2:59:50 PM permalink | |
petroglyph Member since: Aug 3, 2014 Threads: 25 Posts: 6227 |
Psychiatrists are making fortunes trying to help people overcome the damage done from all that guilt being instilled in their heads. The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW |
December 13th, 2015 at 4:45:19 PM permalink | |
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 | [3:16] To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." I have read it several times, and I don't think it could be any more clear - "he shall rule over you" is a consequence for her actions, as is "in pain you shall bring forth children" I have never seen someone suggest that these punishments can ever be reversed - because they describe how the nature of man and woman came to be. There is nothing about how repentance for original sin can reduce the pain of childbirth, make it so man doesn't have to work the earth for food, or be regranted access to the garden of eden. With that, there is nothing to suggest that "he shall rule over you" is reversable either. If it is reversable, doesn't it show that man has the ability to pick and choose which of god's words to believe or obey, or show that god is fallable by his inability to enforce his words? "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
December 13th, 2015 at 4:55:20 PM permalink | |
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 | From Genesis chapter 9 [9:20] Noah, a man of the soil, was the first to plant a vineyard. [9:21] He drank some of the wine and became drunk, and he lay uncovered in his tent. [9:22] And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. [9:23] Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father's nakedness. [9:24] When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him, [9:25] he said, "Cursed be Canaan; lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers." [9:26] He also said, "Blessed by the LORD my God be Shem; and let Canaan be his slave. [9:27] May God make space for Japheth, and let him live in the tents of Shem; and let Canaan be his slave." This was another thing I had trouble understanding, and I don't think your answer about sexual deviants applied here. Why was Canaan made a slave for Ham seeing his drunk naked passed out father and telling his brothers who then covered him up without looking? How did Noah know that Ham had done something to him, and what had he done? What is the lesson here? "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
December 13th, 2015 at 5:12:25 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
More evil is done because people feel bad about themselves than for any other reason. If you make someone feel good about themselves it encourages them to do good and live right. It is kind of like raising the bar so that people strive to keep working and accomplish new things. What you seem to be living and what you seem to think about what the Church should do is just lay the bar down on the ground. That type of defeatism and pessimism does no one any good. God sees your greatness and frees you from ever focusing on your faults and He encourages you to always keep striving to be better. I fail to see why any of this is a problem. Do you not think people want to better themselves? Do you not think they can? Do you want people to just settle for surviving and not desire to thrive? What you are peddling is sickness that leads to death and despair, stop it. As somebody recently posted the guilt and despair you are forcing on people causes them to need psychiatric help. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
December 13th, 2015 at 5:16:41 PM permalink | |
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
There is no one spouse rule in genesis - there are examples of people with one spouse, and an example of someone with two. No rule. As far as I can tell, there is no rule until Paul in the NT tells certain people in leadership positions in the church that they can have only one wife. My assertion continues to be that marriage in christianity has not always been between just one man and one woman. That is what I was hearing over and over during the gay marriage debates, and it is obviously not true. For reference, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Christianity There are other websites out there, but I don't like the way most of them present their information. It's usually rather rude. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |