Prayer=Magical Thinking

What's the difference between prayer to an
non existent god, and magical thinking. In
fact, they are one in the same. Thinking you
can influence the physical universe with your
thoughts is magical thinking, no matter what
what it's disguised as.

And it's such a lazy, monumental waste of time.
It's the height of egotism when somebody says
they'll 'pray' for you. Please don't. You want to
do something for me, come over and mow my
lawn, or shovel my driveway in Jan. Don't offer
something that's meant to make YOU look good
and costs you zero in effort.

Try an experiment. Pray for 30min a day for a month,
and work on a project you have 30min a day. At the
end of the month see which 30m time period supplied
the most results. The results are predictable to 100%
accuracy.

The old saying that if you give to charity
god will give it back to you twofold is
ninconpoopery. But yesterday I put my
spare change in the bell ringers pot, and
today found $7 in change in the hall closet
I was cleaning out. I told my wife and she
was thrilled that god delivered on his
promise. Never mind the fact that I would
have found it no matter what, she said
'I guess you'll never know'. Like god materialized
the $7 out of thin air just for me.

Prayer=Magical Thinking

Quote: Evenbob

What's the difference between prayer to an non existent god, and magical thinking. In fact, they are one in the same. Thinking you can influence the physical universe with your thoughts is magical thinking, no matter what what it's disguised as.

And it's such a lazy, monumental waste of time. It's the height of egotism when somebody says they'll 'pray' for you. Please don't. You want to do something for me, come over and mow my lawn, or shovel my driveway in Jan. Don't offer something that's meant to make YOU look good and costs you zero in effort.

Try an experiment. Pray for 30min a day for a month, and work on a project you have 30min a day. At the end of the month see which 30m time period supplied the most results. The results are predictable to 100% accuracy.

As you like to say, EB, don't be affected by things that happen that don't affect you. Of course, if you spend 100% of time doing vs 100% of time praying you will accomplish nothing that requires actions. Stupid argument. However, I would argue that 30 minutes prayer followed by 7.5 hours of working on a project could yield better results than 8 hours of working on a project.

For many people, prayer gives people focus, strength, or lets out feelings in private, a form of meditation. Praying for someone has a positive effect when they feel cared for. Do you appreciate a get well card, or do you just look at it and say, "they didn't DO anything for me". But as a Christian, it's the minimum one can do to help. Many times a group in prayer will pray and then someone who has meditated in prayer will solve a real issue. For example, "let's pray that the doctors can heal so and so" might translate to someone in the group knowing a very good specialist that can assist in the process which turns into a phone call which turns into an improved treatment and outcome. That is an "answered prayer", a real improvement in someone's life brought about via prayer (plus actions as a result of prayer). That kind of "answered prayer" crap happens all of the time.

And the effort of "offer something that's meant to make YOU look good and costs you zero in effort" was addressed in the bible quite well, in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 6, just before the Lord's prayer:

Quote: Matthew 6:1-5

“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

5“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen.

Quote: Evenbob

The old saying that if you give to charity
god will give it back to you twofold is
ninconpoopery. But yesterday I put my
spare change in the bell ringers pot, and
today found $7 in change in the hall closet
I was cleaning out. I told my wife and she
was thrilled that god delivered on his
promise. Never mind the fact that I would
have found it no matter what, she said
'I guess you'll never know'. Like god materialized
the $7 out of thin air just for me.

Prayer=Magical Thinking

Here in Canada, giving to charity Revenue Canada gives you back 40 cents on the dollar so not too bad. Is your wife a Christian?

Quote: boymimbo

Stupid argument. However, I would argue that 30 minutes prayer followed by 7.5 hours of working on a project

OF COURSE that would work well, duh. But
that isn't what people DO. Most think prayer
is all there is to it, nothing else is needed.
Their magical thinking will take care of
everything. I have sisters in law who pray
all the time for everything under the sun.
Do they take one minute to be proactive
about what they pray for? Hell no, what
would be the point of prayer if it all worked
out if you were just proactive about it.

Prayer is easy, it's free and takes no real
effort. And sometimes the magical thinking
works! Like me finding change it the closet,
it would have worked anyway, but they don't
see it that way. Prayer is superstition, and that
always dies hard.

Quote: boymimbo

Is your wife a Christian?

Her father is a Baptist minister who wouldn't
allow a TV in the house when she was a kid.
What do you think..

Quote: Evenbob

OF COURSE that would work well, duh. But
that isn't what people DO. Most think prayer
is all there is to it, nothing else is needed.

You kind of answered your own question here. I no of absolutely no one who thinks prayer is some type of magic that does not require something of us. Read James where he says, "What good is it for you to say to someone keep warm and well feed, but do nothing to help the person. That type of faith does nothing to help the person does it?" I've said it many times before you are the victim of poor examples of Christianity in your life.

Quote: FrGamble

I no of absolutely no one who thinks prayer is some type of magic that does not require something of us.

Well, except for Bob.......

Quote: FrGamble

I no of absolutely no one who thinks prayer is some type of magic that does not require something of us. .

They may KNOW that, but they don't DO
that. It's too much work, it's much easier
to just throw your prayers out there and
hope for the best and feel good about
yourself.

Nothing grinds my teeth more than someone
saying they're praying for someone. Go
and DO something, prayer doesn't work, that's
a proven fact. Get the magical thinking out
of your life and grow up.

Quote: AZDuffman

Well, except for Bob.......

There are a few others. My sister in law
sits for 5min outside the casino praying
she'll be a winner. She's a slot player.
Does she spend even one minute being
proactive and finding games that will give
her better odds? Does she do one thing
that will improve her game? Hell no.

Jesus told her if she believed in him, he
would give her anything she asked for,
no caveats attached. She takes him at his
word. She is just one of millions who
think prayer is a form of magic, even though
they don't use that word. It's magical thinking,
nonetheless.