Spoiler Dicussion of The Force Awakens

Quote: Dalex64

He doesn't have anyone to teach him how to control/harness his anger.

I gathered the Big Giant Head (Snook? Snoke?) has been training him. When the "NOT the Death Star" is collapsing, he orders Hux to bring Ren along for further training.

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I also found him to be really non-threatening when he didn't have the mask on. I think that was probably the point.

Definitely when he does so for Rey and Han. But he proved as deadly with or without the mask.

I think I'll go see it again this weekend, maybe to one of the newer theaters.

Just saw the movie and I have to say my reaction and thoughts were exactly as Nareed sees it. There was a fake smattering of applause at the end of the movie from people I could tell really wanted to like it but secretly were thinking inside, "Meh".

I hope this doesn't cause Nareed to reexamine to doubt her take on the movie.

Quote: FrGamble

Just saw the movie

Oh NO! You better rush to confession, the Holy
See just condemned the movie 'calling the film
“confused and hazy” and, even worse, opining
that it “fails most spectacularly” in its
representation of evil.'

You should be severely punished.

Quote: FrGamble

Just saw the movie

Did it hurt?

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I hope this doesn't cause Nareed to reexamine to doubt her take on the movie.

Sometimes one does not "get" a movie until later.

There was a short-lived (1 season) TV show called Earth 2 in the 90s, it debuted right alongside ST: Voyager. It was odd, because issues would be raised but not resolved. Sometimes they'd be shelved, sometimes ignored or placed in the back-burner. A bit later I got into watching Babylon 5 (TIP: don't use numbers on your show's title), which did pretty much the same thing. But B5 was telling a long, long story over several episodes. So was Earth 2, only I didn't know it. If I had realized it before, I'd have liked it more (and been disappointed when it was cancelled).

It makes sense, then, to think about the substance but also the form of the movie as presented.

So: Abrahams is known for making the Trek reboot. But this is supposed to be a sequel. Well, yes, but it's also a reboot. Not as in a remake, though, as was the case with Trek, but more along the lines of TV's Star Trek: The Next Generation. We have the same background, same plot devices, with new characters and new circumstances.

I'm disappointed Abrahams followed much of the plot for Ep. IV, and I truly hope he doesn't follow the plot for the next movies.

And there's Rey. I liked Rey a whole lot better than I liked the movie.

I've a fair idea what must follow. Ren and the Talking Head will want to get their hands on Rey, and possibly Luke as well. But Rey, IMO, is far more likely than Luke to join their side. And that can come too close to the plot of Ep. V. If it were me, I'd begin Ep VIII with the Resistance, or better yet the Resistance and the Republic, mounting a massive attack on the First Order.

You mean... The Resistance and the Republic Strikes Back?

Quote: Dalex64

You mean... The Resistance and the Republic Strikes Back?

The flip is a common maneuver used by many a lazy screenwriter :)

Near the ending, when Rey defeats a wounded Kylo Ren on the surface of the NOT A Death Star, I very nearly called out at the screen "Finfish him off!" But if you recall, the ground split open and Rey could no longer reach him. Also the planet/weapon was about to collapse and she had to get off it. Otherwise I think she would have finished him off.

The point is you ought to pursue the advantage once you have it. After the US defeated and destroyed the Japanese long-strike Navy at Midway, Japan could no longer carry out offensive operations against American interests (though they still held the Philippines). The US could have declared victory and gone home. Instead America prosecuted the war with vigor and eventually demanded, and got, an unconditional surrender.

As awful and terrible as that war was, I'm convinced we'd have been much worse off letting a militant, fascist, expansionist Japan survive in any way, shape or form.

Defeating the Empire did not restore freedom to the whole galaxy. We don't know exactly why. But it's clear the First Order needs to join its kindred in the ash-heap of history.

Also, we seldom see the good guys mount an offensive unless it's opportunistic (Ep. VI). All too often they fight only in immediate self-defense (Trek First Contact), even in the middle of a war (DS9). A big offensive push was the feature in Season 4 of Babylon 5, marking the Nth Squared time that series broke with cliché.

I agree that the reason the chasm opened between them was so there was a way for Rey to avoid having to finish him off.

It wasn't bad, though. It will certainly be less frustrating later, when he does bad bad things, not thinking "but Rey could have ended this!"

Quote: Dalex64

I agree that the reason the chasm opened between them was so there was a way for Rey to avoid having to finish him off.

It wasn't bad, though. It will certainly be less frustrating later, when he does bad bad things, not thinking "but Rey could have ended this!"

Yes, exactly, just like when Kenobi left Anakin behind alive.

Three were many arguments about it, but to me it boils down to 2 options:

1) Anakin is Vader and a dangerous enemy even if crippled. Kill him.

2) Kenobi doesn't want to kill his estranged friend. Fair enough. But then why does he leave him to die in agony? And if he doesn't want Anakin dead, why not get him to medical attention?

The third option is that Kenobi is so pissed, he would rather leave Vader to die slowly in agony. That would have been the "sin" (see what I did there???? See????) that brings Kenobi down, literally. But then let us see it. Not simply have him wonder off as though everything's tied up!

One of the things I can't seem to understand is how something as powerful as the First Order could arise from the ashes of the Empire within the lifetimes of Han Solo, Luke, and Leia? At the end of Episode VII the entire galaxy is celebrating as if the wicked witch is dead and then just a decade or so later people are under the oppression of another evil group and they think Luke and Hans were myths that might not even be real? The timeline doesn't really work for me.

It didn't take a lifetime for the Germans to recover from World War 1