Spoiler Dicussion of The Force Awakens

Quote: FrGamble

One of the things I can't seem to understand is how something as powerful as the First Order could arise from the ashes of the Empire within the lifetimes of Han Solo, Luke, and Leia?

Got Mit Uns?

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At the end of Episode VII the entire galaxy is celebrating as if the wicked witch is dead and then just a decade or so later people are under the oppression of another evil group and they think Luke and Hans were myths that might not even be real? The timeline doesn't really work for me.

Do Han, Luke and Leia look like they've aged only 10 years? Does Kylo ren look to be under 10 years old? Clearly it's been decades since the last movie.

But in the first place, we did not see what happened after the parties all over the galaxy. For all we know, stormtroopers swept through the revelers at Couruscant, Bespin and elsewhere right after the camera cut to show Kenobi, Redeemed-Vader and the Annoying Green Jedi greeting Luke from beyond the grave.

What did the Empire lose at Endor? A death star, an emperor and a Darth Vader, plus some ships (remember the super Star Destroyer that crashed into the death star?) One supposes that the bulk of their fleet is safe elsewhere, augmented by whatever ships retreated from Endor. And their ground forces, minus one (count 'em, O-N-E) garrison is largely intact.

Contrast we don't know how big the Rebellion was relative to the Empire.

So, surely, an ambitious, capable leader could grab a hold of the Empire's remnants and built them up. In particular if he signed a truce or armistice with the Republic

Oh, and Ep. VII is the movie you just saw. Jedi is Ep. VI

Quote: FrGamble

At the end of Episode VII the entire galaxy is celebrating as if the wicked witch is dead and then just a decade or so later people are under the oppression of another evil group and they think Luke and Hans were myths that might not even be real?

The last three films were prequels, so we are dating from 1983 Return of the Jedi. They emphasize that the fictional universe mirrors reality in that it is about 30 years since the battle in that film (not a decade).



JJ Abrams said he was motivated by the what if scenario of the Nazis working together in Argentina, and he thought they could be a major military power by the 1970's.

Quote: Dalex64

It didn't take a lifetime for the Germans to recover from World War 1

Yeah but the end of Return of the Jedi was more like the end of World War II.

I feel pretty silly arguing about fictional events, but here is some further fiction:

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The Galactic Civil War continued after the Battle of Endor for many years in the Expanded Universe. With the destruction of the Galactic Empire's central leadership, the institution fell into warlordism, becoming disorganized and weak. Even so, the Empire remained a formidable threat to the New Republic, as it controlled much of the galaxy and still had access to a powerful military. In an effort to fully restore the galaxy to a peaceful state, the New Republic began a campaign of recapturing vital Imperial worlds, including Coruscant, the former capital of the Old Republic and the Galactic Empire alike. The Empire rose again several times under powerful leaders, such as Grand Admiral Thrawn and a series of clones of Palpatine, but it was always thwarted when those leaders were killed.

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_Civil_War

Loss of life and resources on the side of the Empire were really pretty small. Their casualties had to be only a tiny fraction of their total power. However, they lost their powerful leader who was almost singularly holding it all together.

Quote: Dalex64

I feel pretty silly arguing about fictional events, but here is some further fiction:

It is pretty silly, but it can also be fun. A progression of decline is more realistic than a decisive battle changing the face of the galaxy in one swift stroke.

BTW, the three books about Admiral Thrawn by Timothy Zahn, known for a while as "The New SW Trilogy," are well worth reading. Thrawn is an amazing villain: smart, capable, competent and ruthless. He's without cruelty, but also without pity or remorse. In fact, what keeps him from being perfect is one completely unnecessary line in one of the books.

In a latter novel, "Outbound Flight," also by Zahn, a prequel to Thrawn, he's depicted in a more mellow light. It's worth it, except it features elements of the awful, awful, awful prequels (did I say the prequels were awful?)

Ticket sales remain unprecedented. A total of 45 million in one week (beating Jurassic World by 9.5 million tickets).

I wonder if they will run out of customers by the fourth week. There normally is an upper limit on how many people want to see any film.

Quote: Pacomartin

I wonder if they will run out of customers by the fourth week. There normally is an upper limit on how many people want to see any film.

With Star Wars you also need to figure how many want to see it again.

Just say Star Wars pt. 7 today. "Meh" would summarize my response too. Went to see it with five family members and three of us, including me, fell asleep through part of it. Maybe I need it see it again to let some it sink in better -- which I won't.

I will say I think this movie is true to the Star Wars feel, despite a change in directors. Whatever you generally thought of the previous movies, you'll feel of this one. It will not go down as the best, nor the worst, in the series.

Quote: Wizard

Just say Star Wars pt. 7 today. "Meh" would summarize my response too. Went to see it with five family members and three of us, including me, fell asleep through part of it.

I fell asleep as well. I felt bad about that, like I was committing sacrilege.

You wonder when that reaction will catch up with audience attendance. So far in one week it has outsold Jurassic World by 9.5 million tickets, and only went under JW by half a million the first Saturday. Jurassic World was expected to be a hit, but no one thought it could sell 35 million tickets in one week. Star Wars #7 was always expected to be a contender for the biggest movie of all time.

Avatar only reached as high as 3.7 million tickets in one day, and 7th Star Wars only went under that one day. Avatar went on to sell 97.3 million tickets.

Quote: Pacomartin

I fell asleep as well.

I'll tell you why. It's basically a costume drama,
and there can never be good acting because
the actors know you can never out-act the
costumes, so they don't even try.

It's well known by actors that all an audience
sees is the costumes and the special FX, so
throwing you heart and soul into your part
is a waste of time. So when scenes come
along where the action slows, it gets boring
and you fall asleep.