New boeing 737 Max 8 rolled out in ceremony

Quote: Pacomartin

Delta has 11 different configurations for the B757, but many of them do have both sets of lavatories in the middle of the plane

I suppose the 757 with 8 more seats may seem a lot more spacious just because of the arrangements of the bathrooms

Look at the graphics you posted, and you'll see a lot (relatively speaking) of empty, unused space around the lavatories. If you were seating there, it would seem quite spacious. You could also use the space to socialize or just take a break from sitting. This is absent in the 737. though there is a bit of unused space by the lavs, the galley makes it uncomfortable to stand around the area.

Quote: Nareed

Look at the graphics you posted, and you'll see a lot (relatively speaking) of empty, unused space around the lavatories. If you were seating there, it would seem quite spacious. You could also use the space to socialize or just take a break from sitting. This is absent in the 737. though there is a bit of unused space by the lavs, the galley makes it uncomfortable to stand around the area.

I chose a 737-800 because it is far and away the most popular version of the 737. I chose the smaller 757-200 as more reasonable to compare with a 737 than the bigger 757-300. It is still over 25' longer and approved to carry 50 more seats. You can easily fit 9 economy rows in 25'.

757-200 Max Seating 239 Length:155 ft 3 in
737-800 Max Seating 189 Length:129 ft 6 in

Delta has a configuration of the B757-200 with 180 seats which isn't nearly as spacious.


I am not really sure that the B757 is inherently more spacious than the B737, it just depends on configuration. I think the B767 is inherently more comfortable because you have two aisles and 7 seats across. I guess we will never see that again.

Quote: Pacomartin

Delta has a configuration of the B757-200 with 180 seats which isn't nearly as spacious.

It would work well with the midship lav closer to the actual middle. And as you note, there are more seats.

Let's leave it as it struck me as more spacious back in 1990, perhaps because it was.

I've been trying to identify the BIG problems in economy these days, and in air travel in general. Thus far:

Economy is too Spartan
Premium Economy is not sybaritic enough
Business is great, but way too expensive
First class perhaps is just right. After all, it's aimed at people who could charter a plane or own/share ownership in a private jet. The price is what people are willing to pay.

IMO, we need a class that's better than Premium economy and yet less expensive. I've some ideas about this, but I need to think it through. All, mind, from a passenger perspective. As yet I've only a dim notion of what it means for the airlines, save that if it works it works.

Quote: Nareed

Economy is too Spartan

Southwest has 709 B737s in its fleet. The lion's share is the -700 model configured with a 31" pitch. The older and newer models have a more humane 1" or 2" of extra pitch.

117 Boeing 737-300 - 22.1 Years 32"-33" pitch
10 Boeing 737-500 - 24.2 Years 32"-33" pitch
476 Boeing 737-700 - 11.7 Years 31" pitch (143 seats: 24 rows * 6 seats - 1 exit row seat)
106 Boeing 737-800 - 2.2 Years 32"-33" pitch

Delta Boeing 737-700 (73W)
First 37" pitch 21" width ( 12 recliner seats: 3 rows * 4 seats)
Delta Comfort+ 34" pitch 17.2" width (18 standard seats: 3 rows * 6 seats)
Economy 30-31" pitch 17.2" width (94 standard seats: 16 rows * 6 seats - 2 exit row seat)

Airlines operated for decades with a 32" pitch minimum. I just think to operate with a 28" pitch is cruel.

Quote: Pacomartin

Southwest has 709 B737s in its fleet. The lion's share is the -700 model configured with a 31" pitch. The older and newer models have a more humane 1" or 2" of extra pitch.

Southwest is an LCC and such things are expected.

That said, some routes within the US are rather long, so are some of their international routes.

Southwest seems to make up for the measly leg room, as well as no assigned seating, by not charging fees for bags, free snacks onboard and providing good customer service. I hear their WiFi is the best in flight.

Quote:

Airlines operated for decades with a 32" pitch minimum. I just think to operate with a 28" pitch is cruel.

The first airline to offer under 28" pitch will be either Spirit or Ryanair.

Quote: Nareed

The first airline to offer under 28" pitch will be either Spirit or Ryanair.

I think Cape Air has 27" pitch on their Cessna 402 (8 passengerseats plus co-pilot seat)



But it will probably be Spirit. There is little incentive to go below 28" unless you go down to 24"-25" and have a kind of semi standing seat. But with the maximum number of seats increased on an A320, there is strong incentive to install standing type seats.

Quote: Pacomartin

I think Cape Air has 27" pitch on their Cessna 402 (8 passengerseats plus co-pilot seat)

I'm not sure a plane you can tow with your car qualifies in this discussion :)

Quote:

But it will probably be Spirit. There is little incentive to go below 28" unless you go down to 24"-25" and have a kind of semi standing seat. But with the maximum number of seats increased on an A320, there is strong incentive to install standing type seats.

They could just box people up in crates and load the whole plane. You'd be charged by net weight, crate included, times the mileage expected. In case of a detour due to weather, a diversion or a turnaround, you'll pay the extra mileage upon landing. The crates don't open from the inside. Diapers will be available only on flights lasting longer than three hours, for a fee, or you can bring your own, if you pay a higher fee for doing so. Travel sites will feature articles about how much you can save from your net-weight fare if you fast and do an enema the day before flight. Security will be a breeze, as the whole crate is "scanned." No need to take off your shoes or belt, but you're still not allowed to bring in liquids. And if TSA needs to unpack you for a more thorough inspection, there will be a re-crating fee. Payment by cash at the counter nets you a cash payment fee, by phone or website a credit/debit payment fee. Lastly, the "Even More Crate" option will add one whole linear inch to your crate for only double the bare fare and an Even More Crate fee, plus a payment fee and an upgrade fee.

Sure it looks bleak, but the fares will be unbelievable!

Quote: Nareed

Sure it looks bleak, but the fares will be unbelievable!

Telepresence might be the future of business travel.

Quote: Pacomartin

Telepresence might be the future of business travel.

I'll believe that when I see it.

It's also not quite the same for leisure travelers,

The subject of airlines came up at work the other day, in connection with Volaris vs Interjet.

When I told them Spirit now charges for carry-on luggage, they didn't believe me. But one cow-orker said the last time he flew Volaris, they made him check his carry-on for being "too big." Apperently they don't charge for carry-on yet, but have a strict, and limited, definition of what it is, forcing many passengers to check luggage other airlines still allow in the overhead bins.

I also told them of Ryanair charging outrageous sums for printing a boarding pass at the counter. The same cow-orker confirmed this. He said friends of his travelling in Europe came across this fee. It turned out to be cheaper, as they had the time, to obtain a cheap printer and some paper, and print their own passes right there in the concourse. But they left the printer behind.

It might be a good business opportunity for stores at airports to offer printing services for a fraction of what Ryanair is charging. Many stores already have WiFi, a PC and a printer on the premises anyway.