Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

I think you would agree that if so many people believe something it should be seriously looked at, explored, and studied.

Sure.

But that doesn't make it true.

Quote: Nareed

Sure.

But that doesn't make it true.

Kind of feels like we'd be spending years studying events and trying in vain to attribute any order or consistency to attribute them to a higher being.

Unless they can tell us what prayers will definitely be answered and all the other thousands that went unanswered, and why we should use that to come to any conclusions, it's hard to imagine discovering anything.

They claimed god has directly done things like talk from a burning bush. But we can't even get that from them. I would consider that useful to their case.

Quote: rxwine

Kind of feels like we'd be spending years studying events and trying in vain to attribute any order or consistency to attribute them to a higher being.

The thing is there is no underlying order or consistency in nature.

It's true that things tend to move toward equilibrium. But it's also true any equilibrium is broken by external factors, taking place entirely at random.

Quote: Nareed

The thing is there is no underlying order or consistency in nature.

This might be your opinion, but you are clearly wrong.

Quote: FrGamble

I think you would agree that if so many people believe something it should be seriously looked at, explored, and studied.

What an odd thing for a Christian to say.
All thru my life I have asked Christians
if they have studied Buddhism and Hinduism,
they have billions of followers, and they
say Christianity can't be wrong because
it has billions of followers. They always say
no, why would they, they already have
the correct religion.

So to be fair, you need to seriously look
all the major religions, which I have done.
They all come up short.

Quote: FrGamble

This might be your opinion, but you are clearly wrong.

I could go through all available evidence, but the fact is I already have.

Quote: Nareed

I could go through all available evidence, but the fact is I already have.

Random occurances that happen according to strict and sensitive universal constants that govern all things is kind of evidence of order in the universe.

Quote: FrGamble

Random occurances that happen according to strict and sensitive universal constants that govern all things is kind of evidence of order in the universe.

The sun coming up is not a random
occurrence, but how the earth and sun
got where they are is. The universe
is full of the random and non random.
Ever look at a huge forest, and know
that it's completely random and took
a long time to grow, but you wouldn't
change a thing because it's perfect
in it's complete randomness.

A creation would not look like this.
Only random can achieve this kind
of glory, because it's eternal and
unstoppable. Small minded men don't
like things they can't control, so they
invent gods they can tell what to do.
It gives them a false sense of power.

Bob you just say things you feel not paying attention to if they fit reality or not. The beautiful randomness you see follows strict laws and rules.

Also you have to explain why you think believing in a creator totally above us and truly all powerful gives one a sense of control?

Also why is randomness eternal and unstoppable? Nareed has already pointed out that everything is seeking equilibrium. If the universe is eternal wouldn't we already be in such a state?

Really nothing of what you said seems to be true or make much sense.

Quote: FrGamble

The beautiful randomness you see follows strict laws and rules.

Which came first, the evolved rules or the randomness.
Randomness is always first and last in everything. It's
all there is.

Quote:

us and truly all powerful gives one a sense of control?

When you pray, you are trying to control
god, trying to get god to control your
life. You feel a lack of control so you
invent a god to turn to. Look at my
sister in law clutching a cross in the parking
lot of the casino before she goes in, praying
fervently to Jesus that she goes home a
winner. She's trying to control her life
with superstition. (you get my point, don't
give me a lecture on why she is right or
wrong to do this)

Quote:

why is randomness eternal and unstoppable?

Because that's all there is or could be. Randomness
has results (like humans and rabbits and ducks).
It's what runs our lives, we just don't see it because
we live it. Like a fish doesn't see the ocean.

Quote:

Really nothing of what you said seems to be true or make much sense.

When you say that I always know I'm onto
something.