Simple question?

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May 9th, 2017 at 1:45:28 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Jesus clearly did not follow the traditions of His time, especially in regards to the role of women. (many of his closest disciples were women, the first witnesses of the Resurrection were women, He forgave the woman caught in adultery, He spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well, etc.)

Jesus clearly only chose men from His disciples to be Apostles. (He had better choices, especially Mary the most perfect woman ever to live and a woman like Mary Magdalen who had undergone a great conversion)

Therefore, Jesus' choice of an all male priesthood is not based solely on the tradition of His time nor is it based on chauvinistic reasons.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 9th, 2017 at 1:58:18 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: FrGamble
Jesus clearly did not follow the traditions of His time, especially in regards to the role of women. (many of his closest disciples were women, the first witnesses of the Resurrection were women, He forgave the woman caught in adultery, He spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well, etc.)

Jesus clearly only chose men from His disciples to be Apostles. (He had better choices, especially Mary the most perfect woman ever to live and a woman like Mary Magdalen who had undergone a great conversion)

Therefore, Jesus' choice of an all male priesthood is not based solely on the tradition of His time nor is it based on chauvinistic reasons.


So he did clearly state somewhere ONLY men can be apostles in his church. Or you're just assuming that's what he meant and that's why women are never Pope.

I think you're assuming.

And since you just stated defying tradition is not against Jesus ways, clearly there should be women Popes by now.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
May 9th, 2017 at 2:44:01 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: rxwine
So he did clearly state somewhere ONLY men can be apostles in his church. Or you're just assuming that's what he meant and that's why women are never Pope.

I think you're assuming.

And since you just stated defying tradition is not against Jesus ways, clearly there should be women Popes by now.


I'm going by the facts. I laid it out for you and that is the Church's position. There are also some theological reasons that grew around the practice that Jesus established such as the male only priesthood makes clear the role of the priest who in the celebration of the sacraments acts in persona Christi (in the person of Christ). Another fact is that Jesus' closest disciples who knew Him and His tradition breaking counter cultural ways never chose women to be priests, bishops, or deacons. If Jesus left this as an open question surely some of the amazing woman saints of the early Church would have become priests, bishop, or maybe even a Pope.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 9th, 2017 at 7:19:38 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: FrGamble
I'm going by the facts. I laid it out for you and that is the Church's position. There are also some theological reasons that grew around the practice that Jesus established such as the male only priesthood makes clear the role of the priest who in the celebration of the sacraments acts in persona Christi (in the person of Christ). Another fact is that Jesus' closest disciples who knew Him and His tradition breaking counter cultural ways never chose women to be priests, bishops, or deacons. If Jesus left this as an open question surely some of the amazing woman saints of the early Church would have become priests, bishop, or maybe even a Pope.


Are you suppose to be representatives of Jesus or his clones? Seeing as you're not turning water into wine or multiplying loaves you are reps. You don't walk on water either. Among many other things.

Can't see why women are excluded in this way.

Exactly what qualities do you have that women can't duplicate? Women teachers are all over the place, so it can't be that.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
May 9th, 2017 at 7:23:35 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: rxwine

Can't see why women are excluded in this way.


It is about the symbolism present in the Sacraments and Sacramental theology.

Quote:
Exactly what qualities do you have that women can't duplicate? Women teachers are all over the place, so it can't be that.


Absolutely none. I know many women that would be better priests than I will ever be. That is why this is not at all about talent or skills but rather following a Tradition that Jesus Himself established and supported by our belief in the role of the ordained clergy in performing the Sacraments.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 9th, 2017 at 7:31:35 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
It is about the symbolism present in the Sacraments and Sacramental theology. .


Uh huh. Why does any exclusively men's group
exclude women in their membership. They all
have their pissant reasons that always amount
to the same thing. As soon as you let women
in, the whole thing goes to hell. FrG will
disagree with this, but he knows I'm right.
All men, all priests, all members of men's
groups know it's true. The dynamic changes
forever and never in a good way, for the men.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 14th, 2017 at 10:31:02 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Satan was not impressed with God even when he experienced the direct majesty of God.

Satan also must not have found heaven satisfying either to keep him quiet.

Satan did not find serving God satisfying either.


I find these extremely troubling points for theists to answer with any convincing arguments.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
May 15th, 2017 at 1:03:25 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: rxwine
I find these extremely troubling points for theists to answer with any convincing arguments.


They can't answer so they don't even try.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 15th, 2017 at 6:00:00 AM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232
Quote: rxwine
Satan was not impressed with God even when he experienced the direct majesty of God.

Satan also must not have found heaven satisfying either to keep him quiet.

Satan did not find serving God satisfying either.


I find these extremely troubling points for theists to answer with any convincing arguments.
What do you want an answer to? You summed up Satan's position regarding God just fine.
May 15th, 2017 at 10:11:54 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: pew
What do you want an answer to? You summed up Satan's position regarding God just fine.


It wasn't just Satan. Apparently many other angels.

So, here we are on Earth, where you don't experience direct presence of God or Heaven, and we know beings that did and weren't satisfied with the whole shebang and people here have been trying (AFAICT) to convince us that God and Heaven will be all that and a bag of chips.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?