Simple question?

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May 15th, 2017 at 11:43:39 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: rxwine
and people here have been trying (AFAICT) to convince us that God and Heaven will be all that and a bag of chips.


I wondered about this back when I
was trying out Xtionity 45 years ago.
If heaven is so great, if being in gods
presence is so stunning, why would
you ever give that up. You wouldn't.
The myth had to have an antagonist,
even if his back story is ridiculous.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 15th, 2017 at 11:58:22 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: rxwine
It wasn't just Satan. Apparently many other angels.


Want to hear something funny? If you read what Plato wrote about Atlantis, you wouldn't be impressed at all. He make sit sound as an awesome bronze age civilization, centered around a large and quite impressive city. Impressive for the time, sure. Impressive now, not so much. Not past a generic "Look at what they built without even iron tools" kind of way. And, really, there's a lot of that around, like the Pyramids at Giza, or the Maya ruins.

The Bible suffers also from being a document conceived by bronze age primitives. How impressive can their writings be to modern audiences?
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
May 15th, 2017 at 4:16:03 PM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232
Quote: rxwine
It wasn't just Satan. Apparently many other angels.

So, here we are on Earth, where you don't experience direct presence of God or Heaven, and we know beings that did and weren't satisfied with the whole shebang and people here have been trying (AFAICT) to convince us that God and Heaven will be all that and a bag of chips.
One third of the angels. No one is being forced to go to heaven and be with God. That's a choice each person has to make for themselves. I don't think God wants any unhappy campers hanging with Him for eternity so He does leave it up to you. P.S. what is AFAICT?
May 15th, 2017 at 4:18:02 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Nareed

The Bible suffers also from being a document conceived by bronze age primitives. How impressive can their writings be to modern audiences?


How dare you, it's stood the test
of time, it has to be correct. That's
what FrG is always saying about
the NT. It's old, it can't be wrong.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 16th, 2017 at 4:06:41 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
How dare you, it's stood the test
of time, it has to be correct. That's
what FrG is always saying about
the NT. It's old, it can't be wrong.


Ha, I have to laugh at your mischaracterization of my argument. If you really believe that I just don't know what to say to you anymore.


Sorry, I haven't had a chance to do much posting lately. I think the most recent question is a interesting one. What would cause Satan with full knowledge of God and His eternal plan to reject heaven and an all-powerful God? Satan would of course know that his decision would lead to his ultimate unhappiness and separation from all that is good, beautiful and right. Yet He choses himself over God. What is the old saying, "I'd rather rule in Hell then serve in Heaven." That is the mentality of the Evil One and let's be honest how many times do we adapt it for ourselves. We know certain things we do are wrong and will bring fleeting happiness at best and then more problems, but we do it anyway. Why do we do that? If you can come up with the answer to that question than you will also know why Satan chose his own glory over sharing in God's glory.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 16th, 2017 at 5:42:56 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Ha, I have to laugh at your mischaracterization of my argument.


You've said many many times that
the word of the NT has been around
for 2000 years and it's still going
strong and that alone makes it worth
listening to. You can't remember saying
that?

Quote:
We know certain things we do are wrong and will bring fleeting happiness at best and then more problems, but we do it anyway. Why do we do that? If you can come up with the answer to that question than you will also know why Satan chose his own glory


So you're saying Satan is a selfish, small
minded creature who only see's the present
and can't see what his actions will bring in
the future? That's rather disappointing in
the arch enemy of a god. He seems rather
short sighted and unintelligent for a creature
that's gotten so much said about him for the
last 1500 years.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 16th, 2017 at 6:10:43 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
You've said many many times that
the word of the NT has been around
for 2000 years and it's still going
strong and that alone makes it worth
listening to. You can't remember saying
that?


You have no nuance of complexity to your thought. You don't seem to grasp what I'm saying and since you are an intelligent man I can't help but believe it is willful ignorance, which is the worst kind.



Quote:
So you're saying Satan is a selfish, small
minded creature who only see's the present
and can't see what his actions will bring in
the future? That's rather disappointing in
the arch enemy of a god. He seems rather
short sighted and unintelligent for a creature
that's gotten so much said about him for the
last 1500 years.


Now I'm starting to think you aren't even really reading what I wrote.

Make no mistake Satan is not some archenemy of God. That is silly. Satan is a created spiritual being who is nothing compared to the almighty. He is our archenemy and yes Satan is selfish, no he is not small minded or unintelligent.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 16th, 2017 at 6:43:49 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
You don't seem to grasp what I'm saying


You first have to understand, which you apparently
do not, Mr Complexity of Thought, that I give
as much credence to the story in the NT as I
give to the Jack and Beanstalk story. You do
realize if you believed the Jack story to be
true, and convinced others it was, you could
make it come alive with nuance and complexity.
Just like you've done with the fiction in the NT.

Quote:
Make no mistake Satan is not some archenemy of God.


So the talk among Christians of a constant
struggle between god and Satan, a spiritual
warfare, is just bunk then. I always suspected
as much.

Quote:
He is our archenemy and yes Satan is selfish, no he is not small minded or unintelligent.


If he's so smart, why did he break with god.
His vanity? That's a very insipid trait, only
stupid beings let their vanity rule their
lives. Satan doesn't sound smart at all. All
the money in your fable lies in sticking
with god, he holds all the cards, even an
idiot can see that.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 16th, 2017 at 8:01:17 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
You first have to understand...


Your dismissal of the importance of the NT is staggering even for you.


Quote:
So the talk among Christians of a constant
struggle between god and Satan, a spiritual
warfare, is just bunk then. I always suspected
as much.


For God's sake read and understand. There is a huge struggle between Christians and Satan.



Quote:
If he's so smart, why did he break with god.
His vanity? That's a very insipid trait, only
stupid beings let their vanity rule their
lives. Satan doesn't sound smart at all. All
the money in your fable lies in sticking
with god, he holds all the cards, even an
idiot can see that.


Yes, his vanity and no, he is very smart. Think of all the times you have let vanity cause you to do stupid things.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 16th, 2017 at 10:59:54 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Your dismissal of the importance of the NT is staggering even for you.


World importance, yes. Importance to me,
an atheist, almost none at all. Why would
it. How much importance has what the
Buddha said been to you.. See what I mean?


Quote:
There is a huge struggle between Christians and Satan.


Yet this doesn't make Satan god's enemy? It
certainly doesn't make him his friend. If
somebody was trying to steal my converts,
that's exactly what an enemy does.

Quote:
Yes, his vanity and no, he is very smart. Think of all the times you have let vanity cause you to do stupid things.


I can guarantee my vanity has led me to
make very few bad decisions, and certainly
none that have been even close to life
altering. That is the mark of a stupid person,
not a 'very smart' being that you claim Satan
to be. What you say is contradictory; how
smart can Satan be if he lets his vanity dictate
every move he makes. More and more this
sounds like a fairy tale where the players
are given overblown character traits to
make some kind of moralistic point.

And of course that's what the whole tale
of god and Satan is, a myth made up to
teach moral lessons.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.