Simple question?

Quote: pew

Correct! they disagree on the how, not the what.

There is no 'what'. They don't even know
what sin is. FrG thinks sin is feeling bad
because you're disappointed in yourself.
You make up a god, then you make up
a way to finagle into his good graces,
then you argue to the death on how to
do it. To an outsider it looks like you
all belong in the loony bin.

Quote: pew

It's called soteriology or how a person comes to be born again. All three examples would agree that a person is saved by grace alone. by faith alone, through Christ alone. That makes them all the same. The methodology (the how) is what they differ on.

Nareed was way off on the description of Catholicism's soteriology but thanks to pew for correcting things with this summary.

Quote: Evenbob

There is no 'what'. They don't even know
what sin is. FrG thinks sin is feeling bad
because you're disappointed in yourself.

This is not at all what I think! I am trying to help you understand a fundamental concept to humanity. You keep saying ridiculous things like sin does not exist but the notion of sin is universal and everyone understands it, even you though you don't want to admit it. You don't agree with the Christian definition of sin, was there any doubt that you would not? All I have been saying is you go too far with the stupid notion that there is no sin. Every person, culture, religion, and group has a notion of sin, failure, shame, mistakes even atheists. They all also have some way to attempt to rectify that problem of sin, there own soteriology if you will.

You remind me of someone who doesn't believe in Christianity making the ridiculous statement that there is absolutely no God...oh wait that is also what you kind of are saying isn't it. It sounds like you might need a trip to the looney bin.

Quote: FrGamble

Nareed was way off on the description of Catholicism's soteriology but thanks to pew for correcting things with this summary.

Unfortunately, at most you can only be born once.

Quote: FrGamble

has a notion of sin, failure, shame, mistakes .

And that's not feeling disappointed
and let down in yourself? What is
failure and shame then, a boost to
your ego? If it's not disappointment
in yourself, what is it.

You've been telling me for 3 years
that sin is not an offense against
god, as every definition says. Rather
it's 'feeling bad' about something
you do where you're disappointed
in your action. Now you're denying
it? Want me go find a dozen posts
where you said exactly that?

Quote: Nareed

Unfortunately, at most you can only be born once.

Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again".

“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nareed asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Quote: Evenbob

And that's not feeling disappointed
and let down in yourself? What is
failure and shame then, a boost to
your ego? If it's not disappointment
in yourself, what is it.

You've been telling me for 3 years
that sin is not an offense against
god, as every definition says. Rather
it's 'feeling bad' about something
you do where you're disappointed
in your action. Now you're denying
it? Want me go find a dozen posts
where you said exactly that?

Relax Evenbob, I know what the Christian definition of sin is. But what I'm trying to show you is that NOT every definition of sin includes an offense against God. Obviously as an atheist that wouldn't make sense to you. All those posts were me trying to help you realize there is a more universal understanding of the reality of sin that transcends religion and culture. I have been asking of you not to write off the idea of sin just because you are holding on to a limited definition that you can't possibly agree with or understand. You have been saying for 3 years that sin is just made up by Christians. I hope that now with a wider definition of sin you can see that Christians did not make up the idea but rather sadly it has always existed from Adam and Eve on down.

Last I read in this thread was Pew on 253. Can anyone remind me of what the question is and why if its simple it takes 256 pages?

Quote: FrGamble

I'm trying to show you is that NOT every definition of sin includes an offense against God..

Sure it does, it's the number one definition
of sin in every dictionary. It's what your
savior supposedly died for, your sins against
god. For you offending god and being sent
to hell for it. I'm not a Christian and even I
am offended that you think the myth says
he died because you cheated on a test in
third grade and still feel guilty about it.

Quote: Fleastiff

Last I read in this thread was Pew on 253. Can anyone remind me of what the question is and why if its simple it takes 256 pages?

People like to go round and round. They obviously aren't really looking for a simple answer to a simple question. They want to "get over" on their percieved opponents.